For the wireless 3DOF:
I would suggest getting an Intersense (or other) 3DOF tracker,
then getting a BasicStamp (parallax) to hook it up to (assumes serial 
communications)
The BasicStamp would parse the position data into a more usable format.
Then ... there are a couple of wireless (transmit/receive) solutions 
made just for the BasicStamp.
Look in Circuit Cellar for these.
You may need a BasicSTamp on the receiver side to act as a serial device 
to talk to your system.
NOTE: This makes two assumptions:
1. you dont get the 3dof info from the 6dof tracker
2. the lag is acceptable.

If you can pop for the $12K (or so) I would just go with the InterSense 
IS600.
The IS900 should be able to handle the multiple folks.

... bandit

Oliver Bimber wrote:

>hi everyone,
>for our Virtual Showcase setups, we're looking for an optical (and other
>wireless) tracking solutions that support head-tracking (but possibly also
>tracking of interaction devices). For head-tracking, we require 3D position
>information, only.
>However, for input devices we would need 6DOF.
>The solution should be extendable to support multiple (up to four) users
>simultaneously (we can use multiple networked PCs for this). If optical,
>the solution should not be effected much by the lighting conditions,
>surrounding the setup (e.g. IR or ultra-sonic).
>Finally, it should be fast, stable, precise, cheap, easy to integrate, easy
>to maintain, robust, and flexible ;-)
>Does anybody know such a system?
>Thanks,
>--oliver
>ps. don't take the last sentence too serious...
>+--------------+-------------------------------------------------------+
>|   |  |_|_|_|_| Oliver Bimber		  | URL:  http://www.crcg.edu/ |
>| __|__|_|_|_|_| Senior Researcher	  | EMAIL:obimber@c .......     |
>|   |  |_|_|_|_|			  |			       |
>| __|__|_|_|_|_| Human Media Technologies |			       |
>|   __ _  __ __| Fraunhofer CRCG, Inc.	  |			       |
>|  /  /_//  /_ | 321 South Main St.	  | PH :(+1) 401 453-6363 x124 |
>| /_ / |/_ /_/ | Providence,RI 02903,USA  | FAX:(+1) 401 453-0444      |
>+--------------+-------------------------------------------------------+
>
>
>
>

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Dear Oliver,

"fast, stable, precise, cheap, easy to integrate, easy
to maintain, robust, and flexible" dont go together :)

I will recommend Vicon myself for your requirements

Then there are wired solutions that are from InterSense
and 3DTech.

Yohan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Oliver Bimber" <obimber@r .................>
To: <arforum@t .........>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 5:30 AM
Subject: [ARFORUM] wireless tracking


> hi everyone,
> for our Virtual Showcase setups, we're looking for an optical (and other
> wireless) tracking solutions that support head-tracking (but possibly also
> tracking of interaction devices). For head-tracking, we require 3D
position
> information, only.
> However, for input devices we would need 6DOF.
> The solution should be extendable to support multiple (up to four) users
> simultaneously (we can use multiple networked PCs for this). If optical,
> the solution should not be effected much by the lighting conditions,
> surrounding the setup (e.g. IR or ultra-sonic).
> Finally, it should be fast, stable, precise, cheap, easy to integrate,
easy
> to maintain, robust, and flexible ;-)
> Does anybody know such a system?
> Thanks,
> --oliver
> ps. don't take the last sentence too serious...
> +--------------+-------------------------------------------------------+
> |   |  |_|_|_|_| Oliver Bimber   | URL:  http://www.crcg.edu/ |
> | __|__|_|_|_|_| Senior Researcher   | EMAIL:obimber@c .......     |
> |   |  |_|_|_|_|   |        |
> | __|__|_|_|_|_| Human Media Technologies |        |
> |   __ _  __ __| Fraunhofer CRCG, Inc.   |        |
> |  /  /_//  /_ | 321 South Main St.   | PH :(+1) 401 453-6363 x124 |
> | /_ / |/_ /_/ | Providence,RI 02903,USA  | FAX:(+1) 401 453-0444      |
> +--------------+-------------------------------------------------------+
>
>

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==^================================================================

hi everyone,
for our Virtual Showcase setups, we're looking for an optical (and other
wireless) tracking solutions that support head-tracking (but possibly also
tracking of interaction devices). For head-tracking, we require 3D position
information, only.
However, for input devices we would need 6DOF.
The solution should be extendable to support multiple (up to four) users
simultaneously (we can use multiple networked PCs for this). If optical,
the solution should not be effected much by the lighting conditions,
surrounding the setup (e.g. IR or ultra-sonic).
Finally, it should be fast, stable, precise, cheap, easy to integrate, easy
to maintain, robust, and flexible ;-)
Does anybody know such a system?
Thanks,
--oliver
ps. don't take the last sentence too serious...
+--------------+-------------------------------------------------------+
|   |  |_|_|_|_| Oliver Bimber		  | URL:  http://www.crcg.edu/ |
| __|__|_|_|_|_| Senior Researcher	  | EMAIL:obimber@c .......     |
|   |  |_|_|_|_|			  |			       |
| __|__|_|_|_|_| Human Media Technologies |			       |
|   __ _  __ __| Fraunhofer CRCG, Inc.	  |			       |
|  /  /_//  /_ | 321 South Main St.	  | PH :(+1) 401 453-6363 x124 |
| /_ / |/_ /_/ | Providence,RI 02903,USA  | FAX:(+1) 401 453-0444      |
+--------------+-------------------------------------------------------+

==^================================================================
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==^================================================================

Oliver (and Yohan):
 
Please excuse me for the brief "sales-oriented" reply, but thought that it would be important for the AR community to know the following exists:
 
Please also consider the fact that Ascension's new ReActor active-optical system is a great system to consider and may "meet" some of your requirements below depending on what your definitions are:
1. fast: report rate up to 120 Hz
2. stable, precise: accuracy +/- 2mm RMS and consistent throughout entire capture volume
3. Cheap: $89K, which includes 540 digital cameras in fixed frame
4. robust: No moving parts, all solid state (no camera lenses)
5. Flexible: Frame size is adjustable
 
See: http://www.ascension-tech.com/products/reactor/
- Greg Erdmann
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: yohan baillot [mailto:baillot@a ...............]
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 4:23 PM
To: arforum@t .........
Subject: Re: [ARFORUM] wireless tracking
 
Dear Oliver,
 
"fast, stable, precise, cheap, easy to integrate, easy
to maintain, robust, and flexible" dont go together :)
 
I will recommend Vicon myself for your requirements
 
Then there are wired solutions that are from InterSense
and 3DTech.
 
Yohan
 
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oliver Bimber" <obimber@r .................>
To: <arforum@t .........>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 5:30 AM
Subject: [ARFORUM] wireless tracking
 
 
> hi everyone,
> for our Virtual Showcase setups, we're looking for an optical (and other
> wireless) tracking solutions that support head-tracking (but possibly also
> tracking of interaction devices). For head-tracking, we require 3D
position
> information, only.
> However, for input devices we would need 6DOF.
> The solution should be extendable to support multiple (up to four) users
> simultaneously (we can use multiple networked PCs for this). If optical,
> the solution should not be effected much by the lighting conditions,
> surrounding the setup (e.g. IR or ultra-sonic).
> Finally, it should be fast, stable, precise, cheap, easy to integrate,
easy
> to maintain, robust, and flexible ;-)
> Does anybody know such a system?
> Thanks,
> --oliver
> ps. don't take the last sentence too serious...
> +--------------+-------------------------------------------------------+
> |   |  |_|_|_|_| Oliver Bimber   | URL:  http://www.crcg.edu/ |
> | __|__|_|_|_|_| Senior Researcher   | EMAIL:obimber@c .......     |
> |   |  |_|_|_|_|   |        |
> | __|__|_|_|_|_| Human Media Technologies |        |
> |   __ _  __ __| Fraunhofer CRCG, Inc.   |        |
> |  /  /_//  /_ | 321 South Main St.   | PH :(+1) 401 453-6363 x124 |
> | /_ / |/_ /_/ | Providence,RI 02903,USA  | FAX:(+1) 401 453-0444      |
> +--------------+-------------------------------------------------------+
>
>
 
==^================================================================
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==^================================================================
 
Regards,
 
Gregory S. Erdmann
Global Account Manager
 
Ascension Technology Corporation
PO Box 527, Burlington, VT 05402 USA
Tel: (802) 893-6657 Fax: (802) 893-6659
email:        greg@a .................
web site:   http://www.ascension-tech.com/
ftp site:       ftp://ftp.ascension-tech.com/pub/ascension-tech.com/
 
Magnetic, optical and inertial motion tracking technologies 
for computer graphics applications.
 
==^================================================================
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Mark, no I didn't take it the wrong way at all  - it is good to stimulate
conversation on this topic so tracker designers like us can develop what you
folks need. Yes, ReActor was designed for full body motion capture. But with
30 markers, and only 3 needed to compute angles (Reactor is a position-only
tracker), that is technically accommodating for up to 7-10 people with 3-4
markers on a head. Why 3 OR 4? A fourth marker is used to compensate if one
of the others is occluded. The likelihood of two being occluded is very low.

Also, with the 540 photo-detectors (digital "cameras") distributed evenly
about the 12 bar frame, the coverage is fantastic and occlusion is minimized
greatly to begin with. Furthermore, since the small radio pack (on the
person being tracked) is sending out a time sequence of which marker is
flashing, to the base-station computer, the markers are looking for the
stationary detectors and occlusion is further minimized (opposite of the
"cameras" looking for the moving markers as in a passive system).

Right now, yes, we can only communicate with one radio pack, so this is the
real limiting factor that one person can be used. Revision 2 of ReActor
should be out Q2 2001 and that will be implemented.

The capture volume will also be expanded as well. We are working on what the
maximum range is now.

And finally, we've been doing a beta program with our laserBIRD tracker
recently which is going very well and could be an option depending on the AR
application. Let me know if you want more info on that...

Thanks -

Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: mp3@s ........... [mailto:mp3@s ...........]On Behalf Of Mark Palmer
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 11:52 AM
To: arforum@t .........
Cc: gerdmann@a .................
Subject: Re: [ARFORUM] wireless tracking

Greg,

I hope you don't take this the wrong way as what I've heard of
the ReActor is that its a very good product but perhaps you
could clear something up for the AR community.

When I looked into the ReActor for this type of use I was told that it
would support only one user as opposed to Oliver's request for
"multiple (up to four) users". As far as I can see the issue is one of
line of sight and occlusion (and the fact it is primarily designed for
motion capture). But as far as simply tracking HMD's are concerned I
imagine there shouldn't be too great a problem. I can't see why the
ReActor couldn't be adapted for such use as long as one could get hold
of the IR devices that are in the body suit to mount on a HMD etc. Are
these now available for such a purpose?

A second point is that the ReActor's active capture area was quite
small (3x3x4m) has the company developed the system so that the basic
area can be expanded so that users can be occupied as well as the
virtual objects that they wish to examine? As you might imagine four
users and for the sake of arguement a virtual car would be quite a
tight squeeze.


all the best

Mark






On Mon, 8 Oct 2001 09:20:13 -0400 Greg Erdmann
<gerdmann@a .................> wrote:

> Oliver (and Yohan):
>
> Please excuse me for the brief "sales-oriented" reply, but thought that it
> would be important for the AR community to know the following exists:
>
> Please also consider the fact that Ascension's new ReActor active-optical
> system is a great system to consider and may "meet" some of your
> requirements below depending on what your definitions are:
> 1. fast: report rate up to 120 Hz
> 2. stable, precise: accuracy +/- 2mm RMS and consistent throughout entire
> capture volume
> 3. Cheap: $89K, which includes 540 digital cameras in fixed frame
> 4. robust: No moving parts, all solid state (no camera lenses)
> 5. Flexible: Frame size is adjustable
>
> See: http://www.ascension-tech.com/products/reactor/
> - Greg Erdmann
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: yohan baillot [mailto:baillot@a ...............]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 4:23 PM
> To: arforum@t .........
> Subject: Re: [ARFORUM] wireless tracking
>
> Dear Oliver,
>
> "fast, stable, precise, cheap, easy to integrate, easy
> to maintain, robust, and flexible" dont go together :)
>
> I will recommend Vicon myself for your requirements
>
> Then there are wired solutions that are from InterSense
> and 3DTech.
>
> Yohan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Oliver Bimber" <obimber@r .................>
> To: <arforum@t .........>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 5:30 AM
> Subject: [ARFORUM] wireless tracking
>
>
> > hi everyone,
> > for our Virtual Showcase setups, we're looking for an optical (and other
> > wireless) tracking solutions that support head-tracking (but possibly
also
> > tracking of interaction devices). For head-tracking, we require 3D
> position
> > information, only.
> > However, for input devices we would need 6DOF.
> > The solution should be extendable to support multiple (up to four) users
> > simultaneously (we can use multiple networked PCs for this). If optical,
> > the solution should not be effected much by the lighting conditions,
> > surrounding the setup (e.g. IR or ultra-sonic).
> > Finally, it should be fast, stable, precise, cheap, easy to integrate,
> easy
> > to maintain, robust, and flexible ;-)
> > Does anybody know such a system?
> > Thanks,
> > --oliver
> > ps. don't take the last sentence too serious...
> > +--------------+-------------------------------------------------------+
> > |   |  |_|_|_|_| Oliver Bimber   | URL:  http://www.crcg.edu/ |
> > | __|__|_|_|_|_| Senior Researcher   | EMAIL:obimber@c .......     |
> > |   |  |_|_|_|_|   |        |
> > | __|__|_|_|_|_| Human Media Technologies |        |
> > |   __ _  __ __| Fraunhofer CRCG, Inc.   |        |
> > |  /  /_//  /_ | 321 South Main St.   | PH :(+1) 401 453-6363 x124 |
> > | /_ / |/_ /_/ | Providence,RI 02903,USA  | FAX:(+1) 401 453-0444      |
> > +--------------+-------------------------------------------------------+
> >
> >
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Gregory S. Erdmann
> Global Account Manager
>
> Ascension Technology Corporation
> PO Box 527, Burlington, VT 05402 USA
> Tel: (802) 893-6657 Fax: (802) 893-6659
> email:        greg@a ................. <mailto:greg@a .................>
> web site:   http://www.ascension-tech.com/
<http://www.ascension-tech.com/>
> ftp site:       ftp://ftp.ascension-tech.com/pub/ascension-tech.com/
> <ftp://ftp.ascension-tech.com/pub/ascension-tech.com/>
>
> Magnetic, optical and inertial motion tracking technologies
> for computer graphics applications.
>
>


          ************************************************
                           Dr Mark Palmer
                Arts & Humanities Research Board Fellow
                       School of Art & Design
                            College Road
                      Staffordshire University
                           Stoke-on-Trent
                               ST4 2DE
                tel:    +44 (0)1782 294802 (direct)
                fax:    +44 (0)1782 294873
                       M.W.Palmer@s ...........
          ************************************************

==^================================================================
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==^================================================================

Greg,

I hope you don't take this the wrong way as what I've heard of 
the ReActor is that its a very good product but perhaps you 
could clear something up for the AR community.

When I looked into the ReActor for this type of use I was told that it
would support only one user as opposed to Oliver's request for 
"multiple (up to four) users". As far as I can see the issue is one of 
line of sight and occlusion (and the fact it is primarily designed for 
motion capture). But as far as simply tracking HMD's are concerned I 
imagine there shouldn't be too great a problem. I can't see why the 
ReActor couldn't be adapted for such use as long as one could get hold 
of the IR devices that are in the body suit to mount on a HMD etc. Are 
these now available for such a purpose?

A second point is that the ReActor's active capture area was quite 
small (3x3x4m) has the company developed the system so that the basic 
area can be expanded so that users can be occupied as well as the 
virtual objects that they wish to examine? As you might imagine four 
users and for the sake of arguement a virtual car would be quite a 
tight squeeze.


all the best

Mark






On Mon, 8 Oct 2001 09:20:13 -0400 Greg Erdmann 
<gerdmann@a .................> wrote:

> Oliver (and Yohan):
> 
> Please excuse me for the brief "sales-oriented" reply, but thought that it
> would be important for the AR community to know the following exists:
> 
> Please also consider the fact that Ascension's new ReActor active-optical
> system is a great system to consider and may "meet" some of your
> requirements below depending on what your definitions are:
> 1. fast: report rate up to 120 Hz
> 2. stable, precise: accuracy +/- 2mm RMS and consistent throughout entire
> capture volume
> 3. Cheap: $89K, which includes 540 digital cameras in fixed frame
> 4. robust: No moving parts, all solid state (no camera lenses)
> 5. Flexible: Frame size is adjustable
> 
> See: http://www.ascension-tech.com/products/reactor/
> - Greg Erdmann
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: yohan baillot [mailto:baillot@a ...............]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 4:23 PM
> To: arforum@t .........
> Subject: Re: [ARFORUM] wireless tracking
> 
> Dear Oliver,
> 
> "fast, stable, precise, cheap, easy to integrate, easy
> to maintain, robust, and flexible" dont go together :)
> 
> I will recommend Vicon myself for your requirements
> 
> Then there are wired solutions that are from InterSense
> and 3DTech.
> 
> Yohan
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Oliver Bimber" <obimber@r .................>
> To: <arforum@t .........>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 5:30 AM
> Subject: [ARFORUM] wireless tracking
> 
> 
> > hi everyone,
> > for our Virtual Showcase setups, we're looking for an optical (and other
> > wireless) tracking solutions that support head-tracking (but possibly also
> > tracking of interaction devices). For head-tracking, we require 3D
> position
> > information, only.
> > However, for input devices we would need 6DOF.
> > The solution should be extendable to support multiple (up to four) users
> > simultaneously (we can use multiple networked PCs for this). If optical,
> > the solution should not be effected much by the lighting conditions,
> > surrounding the setup (e.g. IR or ultra-sonic).
> > Finally, it should be fast, stable, precise, cheap, easy to integrate,
> easy
> > to maintain, robust, and flexible ;-)
> > Does anybody know such a system?
> > Thanks,
> > --oliver
> > ps. don't take the last sentence too serious...
> > +--------------+-------------------------------------------------------+
> > |   |  |_|_|_|_| Oliver Bimber   | URL:  http://www.crcg.edu/ |
> > | __|__|_|_|_|_| Senior Researcher   | EMAIL:obimber@c .......     |
> > |   |  |_|_|_|_|   |        |
> > | __|__|_|_|_|_| Human Media Technologies |        |
> > |   __ _  __ __| Fraunhofer CRCG, Inc.   |        |
> > |  /  /_//  /_ | 321 South Main St.   | PH :(+1) 401 453-6363 x124 |
> > | /_ / |/_ /_/ | Providence,RI 02903,USA  | FAX:(+1) 401 453-0444      |
> > +--------------+-------------------------------------------------------+
> >
> >
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Gregory S. Erdmann
> Global Account Manager
> 
> Ascension Technology Corporation
> PO Box 527, Burlington, VT 05402 USA
> Tel: (802) 893-6657 Fax: (802) 893-6659
> email:        greg@a ................. <mailto:greg@a .................>
> web site:   http://www.ascension-tech.com/ <http://www.ascension-tech.com/>
> ftp site:       ftp://ftp.ascension-tech.com/pub/ascension-tech.com/
> <ftp://ftp.ascension-tech.com/pub/ascension-tech.com/>
> 
> Magnetic, optical and inertial motion tracking technologies
> for computer graphics applications.
> 
> 

 
          ************************************************
                           Dr Mark Palmer
                Arts & Humanities Research Board Fellow
                       School of Art & Design
			    College Road
                      Staffordshire University
                           Stoke-on-Trent
                               ST4 2DE
          	tel:	+44 (0)1782 294802 (direct)  
	        fax:	+44 (0)1782 294873
                       M.W.Palmer@s ...........
          ************************************************

==^================================================================
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==^================================================================

Hi Greg,

> Mark, no I didn't take it the wrong way at all  - it is good to stimulate
> conversation on this topic so tracker designers like us can develop what you
> folks need.

Thanks for that and for clarify some of the issues surrounding the
Reactor. It seems to me that the transmitter is the 'bottleneck' of 
the system in more ways than one. You mentioned 30 markers - I assume
that this is the capacity of the system (if the notion I bring up later
of switching between markers is correct I imagine that there will be a 
very real limit to the number of sensors). If this is the case and the 
transmitter 'bottleneck' were overcome one might be looking at a system 
that could track 7 users or an admixture of users and secondary devices.

> Also, with the 540 photo-detectors (digital "cameras") distributed evenly
> about the 12 bar frame, the coverage is fantastic and occlusion is minimized
> greatly to begin with. Furthermore, since the small radio pack (on the
> person being tracked) is sending out a time sequence of which marker is
> flashing, to the base-station computer, the markers are looking for the
> stationary detectors and occlusion is further minimized (opposite of the
> "cameras" looking for the moving markers as in a passive system).

What we appear to have here is a space frame that houses the IR 
sensors, presumably dealing with one sensor at a time (in its alloted 
position in the time sequence, and which is therefore too all intents 
and purposes stationary at that point in time). The radio link acts 
as a 'switch' which turns on each marker in turn, and at the same time 
passes that data to a base station where this data is collated and 
turned into a useable format. If this were the case I imagine that in 
order to minimise sensor 'lag' these would be switched through in a 
particular order to try and cluster these readings - but perhaps I'm 
completely off the mark here!
 
> Right now, yes, we can only communicate with one radio pack, so this is the
> real limiting factor that one person can be used. Revision 2 of ReActor
> should be out Q2 2001 and that will be implemented.

Was that 2001 or 2002?

If my supposition is correct the problem faced by more than
one radio pack would be to get each unit to take 'its turn' otherwise
one would be asking the sensors to read multiple markers concurrently. I guess
you'd have to get the packs to 'talk' to each other so that they 
could update each other as well as the base unit. If (big if!) this is 
the case I know nothing of how this might be done but as with  
things of this nature I'd imagine that thare will be a capacity for the 
system, the question is what will this be (if indeed there is one) and 
what is the projected cost of these units? The alternative might well 
be to get a wireless link to the markers themselves I guess that it 
depends on the type of app one is considering.

> The capture volume will also be expanded as well. We are working on what the
> maximum range is now.

Again any notion of the anticipated range and cost of such an upgrade?


> And finally, we've been doing a beta program with our laserBIRD tracker
> recently which is going very well and could be an option depending on the AR
> application. Let me know if you want more info on that...


......yes please. Thanks for your help and I look forward to your reply.

all the best,


Mark

 
          ************************************************
                           Dr Mark Palmer
                Arts & Humanities Research Board Fellow
                       School of Art & Design
			    College Road
                      Staffordshire University
                           Stoke-on-Trent
                               ST4 2DE
          	tel:	+44 (0)1782 294802 (direct)  
	        fax:	+44 (0)1782 294873
                       M.W.Palmer@s ...........
          ************************************************

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Dear Greg,
 
is your system going to be wireless?
can it be adapted to a CAVE?
 
thanks
 
Yohan 

___________________________________________
 
Yohan Baillot
VRLab / Naval Research Laboratory
4555 Overlook Avenue SE           ______ 
Code 5580, Room 119A             /\           \
Washington DC 20375              /   \           \
Phone (202) 404 7801             /      \______\ 
Mobile (703) 732 5679            \       /           /
Fax (202) 404 1122                  \   /           /
baillot@a ...............               \/_____  /
 
http://ait.nrl.navy.mil/people/baillot/
http://ait.nrl.navy.mil/vrlab/projects/BARS/BARS.html
___________________________________________
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Greg Erdmann 
To: arforum@t ......... 
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 6:20 AM
Subject: [ARFORUM] wireless tracking

Oliver (and Yohan):
 
Please excuse me for the brief "sales-oriented" reply, but thought that it would be important for the AR community to know the following exists:
 
Please also consider the fact that Ascension's new ReActor active-optical system is a great system to consider and may "meet" some of your requirements below depending on what your definitions are:
1. fast: report rate up to 120 Hz
2. stable, precise: accuracy +/- 2mm RMS and consistent throughout entire capture volume
3. Cheap: $89K, which includes 540 digital cameras in fixed frame
4. robust: No moving parts, all solid state (no camera lenses)
5. Flexible: Frame size is adjustable
 
See: http://www.ascension-tech.com/products/reactor/
- Greg Erdmann
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: yohan baillot [mailto:baillot@a ...............]
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 4:23 PM
To: arforum@t .........
Subject: Re: [ARFORUM] wireless tracking
 
Dear Oliver,
 
"fast, stable, precise, cheap, easy to integrate, easy
to maintain, robust, and flexible" dont go together :)
 
I will recommend Vicon myself for your requirements
 
Then there are wired solutions that are from InterSense
and 3DTech.
 
Yohan
 
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oliver Bimber" <obimber@r .................>
To: <arforum@t .........>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 5:30 AM
Subject: [ARFORUM] wireless tracking
 
 
> hi everyone,
> for our Virtual Showcase setups, we're looking for an optical (and other
> wireless) tracking solutions that support head-tracking (but possibly also
> tracking of interaction devices). For head-tracking, we require 3D
position
> information, only.
> However, for input devices we would need 6DOF.
> The solution should be extendable to support multiple (up to four) users
> simultaneously (we can use multiple networked PCs for this). If optical,
> the solution should not be effected much by the lighting conditions,
> surrounding the setup (e.g. IR or ultra-sonic).
> Finally, it should be fast, stable, precise, cheap, easy to integrate,
easy
> to maintain, robust, and flexible ;-)
> Does anybody know such a system?
> Thanks,
> --oliver
> ps. don't take the last sentence too serious...
> +--------------+-------------------------------------------------------+
> |   |  |_|_|_|_| Oliver Bimber   | URL:  http://www.crcg.edu/ |
> | __|__|_|_|_|_| Senior Researcher   | EMAIL:obimber@c .......     |
> |   |  |_|_|_|_|   |        |
> | __|__|_|_|_|_| Human Media Technologies |        |
> |   __ _  __ __| Fraunhofer CRCG, Inc.   |        |
> |  /  /_//  /_ | 321 South Main St.   | PH :(+1) 401 453-6363 x124 |
> | /_ / |/_ /_/ | Providence,RI 02903,USA  | FAX:(+1) 401 453-0444      |
> +--------------+-------------------------------------------------------+
>
>
 
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Regards,
 
Gregory S. Erdmann
Global Account Manager
 
Ascension Technology Corporation
PO Box 527, Burlington, VT 05402 USA
Tel: (802) 893-6657 Fax: (802) 893-6659
email:        greg@a .................
web site:   http://www.ascension-tech.com/
ftp site:       ftp://ftp.ascension-tech.com/pub/ascension-tech.com/
 
Magnetic, optical and inertial motion tracking technologies 
for computer graphics applications.
 
==^================================================================
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------=extPart_000_0017_01C150BB.E380CCA0-- 

Dear Oliver,

I know that the AR forum is not a PR forum, but I too (as Greg Erdmann
did) would like to give a short "sales statement", that may be valuable
for the AR community.

A.R.T. is a german company. We produce a passive IR optical tracking
system, "ARTtrack", that has been designed especially for VR/AR
applications and that may fit quite well to your requirements:

* passive Markers (i.e. wireless)
* supports up to 10 Targets (6dof each; head, interaction device or
other)
* accurate: RMS = 0.25 mm and 0.12 deg in medium sized (3x3m) system
* frame rates up to 60 Hz, delay ca. 25 to 40 ms
* fast and easy to set up
* system size is scalable
* "self made targets" can easily be calibrated and tracked
* can be used with "Crystal Eyes" shutter eyewear
* wireless "Flying Joystick" is available

I do not know if also the price will fit to your needs: a medium sized
system, that covers a tracking area of about 3 x 3 meters, costs in the
range of $ 50 K.

For more informations: armin.weiss@a .............

Thanks,
Armin Weiss,
A.R.T. GmbH


Oliver Bimber:
> 
> hi everyone,
> for our Virtual Showcase setups, we're looking for an optical (and other
> wireless) tracking solutions that support head-tracking (but possibly also
> tracking of interaction devices). For head-tracking, we require 3D position
> information, only.
> However, for input devices we would need 6DOF.
> The solution should be extendable to support multiple (up to four) users
> simultaneously (we can use multiple networked PCs for this). If optical,
> the solution should not be effected much by the lighting conditions,
> surrounding the setup (e.g. IR or ultra-sonic).
> Finally, it should be fast, stable, precise, cheap, easy to integrate, easy
> to maintain, robust, and flexible ;-)
> Does anybody know such a system?
> Thanks,
> --oliver
> ps. don't take the last sentence too serious...
> +--------------+-------------------------------------------------------+
> |   |  |_|_|_|_| Oliver Bimber            | URL:  http://www.crcg.edu/ |
> | __|__|_|_|_|_| Senior Researcher        | EMAIL:obimber@c .......     |
> |   |  |_|_|_|_|                          |                            |
> | __|__|_|_|_|_| Human Media Technologies |                            |
> |   __ _  __ __| Fraunhofer CRCG, Inc.    |                            |
> |  /  /_//  /_ | 321 South Main St.       | PH :(+1) 401 453-6363 x124 |
> | /_ / |/_ /_/ | Providence,RI 02903,USA  | FAX:(+1) 401 453-0444      |
> +--------------+-------------------------------------------------------+
> 

-- 
___________________________________

Armin Weiss

A.R.T. GmbH
Gewerbestrasse 17 Rgb.
D-82211 Herrsching

Phone	+49-8152-968530
Fax	+49-8152-968501
e-mail	armin.weiss@a .............
___________________________________

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I do not want to change this forum into a promotion platform for specific
products, but I just want to support the statement Armin Weiss gave.

We are using two setups of the A.R.T. system at our laboratories with great
success. The systems are incredibly accurate and have very low latency. The
best tracking system (regarding quality of tracking) I know so far (compared
to Polhemus, Intersense, Ascension, ImageGuided Flashpoint, ARToolKit
systems). 
You have to consider two _limitations_ of the system:
(a) the price: cheap compared to HiBall, expensive compared to ARToolKit
systems
(b) the camera mounting: you have to mount 2..n stationary cameras within
your environment to be tracked (calibration of the cameras is no problem, done
within a quarter of an hour)

Imho, Oliver's problem could also be solved by using the Intersense IS900
system with a couple of strips on the ceiling. But I don't know if the accuracy
is sufficient for the Showcase task.

hope this helps.
Holger R.


> Dear Oliver,
> 
> I know that the AR forum is not a PR forum, but I too (as Greg Erdmann
> did) would like to give a short "sales statement", that may be valuable
> for the AR community.
> 
> A.R.T. is a german company. We produce a passive IR optical tracking
> system, "ARTtrack", that has been designed especially for VR/AR
> applications and that may fit quite well to your requirements:
> 
> * passive Markers (i.e. wireless)
> * supports up to 10 Targets (6dof each; head, interaction device or
> other)
> * accurate: RMS = 0.25 mm and 0.12 deg in medium sized (3x3m) system
> * frame rates up to 60 Hz, delay ca. 25 to 40 ms
> * fast and easy to set up
> * system size is scalable
> * "self made targets" can easily be calibrated and tracked
> * can be used with "Crystal Eyes" shutter eyewear
> * wireless "Flying Joystick" is available
> 
> I do not know if also the price will fit to your needs: a medium sized
> system, that covers a tracking area of about 3 x 3 meters, costs in the
> range of $ 50 K.
> 
> For more informations: armin.weiss@a .............
> 
> Thanks,
> Armin Weiss,
> A.R.T. GmbH
> 
> 
> Oliver Bimber:
> > 
> > hi everyone,
> > for our Virtual Showcase setups, we're looking for an optical (and other
> > wireless) tracking solutions that support head-tracking (but possibly
> also
> > tracking of interaction devices). For head-tracking, we require 3D
> position
> > information, only.
> > However, for input devices we would need 6DOF.
> > The solution should be extendable to support multiple (up to four) users
> > simultaneously (we can use multiple networked PCs for this). If optical,
> > the solution should not be effected much by the lighting conditions,
> > surrounding the setup (e.g. IR or ultra-sonic).
> > Finally, it should be fast, stable, precise, cheap, easy to integrate,
> easy
> > to maintain, robust, and flexible ;-)
> > Does anybody know such a system?
> > Thanks,
> > --oliver
> > ps. don't take the last sentence too serious...
> > +--------------+-------------------------------------------------------+
> > |   |  |_|_|_|_| Oliver Bimber            | URL:  http://www.crcg.edu/ |
> > | __|__|_|_|_|_| Senior Researcher        | EMAIL:obimber@c .......     |
> > |   |  |_|_|_|_|                          |                            |
> > | __|__|_|_|_|_| Human Media Technologies |                            |
> > |   __ _  __ __| Fraunhofer CRCG, Inc.    |                            |
> > |  /  /_//  /_ | 321 South Main St.       | PH :(+1) 401 453-6363 x124 |
> > | /_ / |/_ /_/ | Providence,RI 02903,USA  | FAX:(+1) 401 453-0444      |
> > +--------------+-------------------------------------------------------+
> > 
> 
> -- 
> ___________________________________
> 
> Armin Weiss
> 
> A.R.T. GmbH
> Gewerbestrasse 17 Rgb.
> D-82211 Herrsching
> 
> Phone	+49-8152-968530
> Fax	+49-8152-968501
> e-mail	armin.weiss@a .............
> ___________________________________
> 
> 

-- 
Holger Regenbrecht
REPLY TO: regenbre@i .........
DaimlerChrysler Research and Technology
Virtual Reality Competence Center, Ulm, Germany

GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet.
http://www.gmx.net

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The sensors are connected via thin wire to a small radio pack (the size of a cellphone). 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: yohan baillot [mailto:baillot@a ...............]
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 3:14 PM
To: arforum@t .........
Subject: Re: [ARFORUM] wireless tracking
 
Dear Greg,
 
is your system going to be wireless?
can it be adapted to a CAVE?
 
thanks
 
Yohan 

___________________________________________
 
Yohan Baillot
VRLab / Naval Research Laboratory
4555 Overlook Avenue SE           ______ 
Code 5580, Room 119A             /\           \
Washington DC 20375              /   \           \
Phone (202) 404 7801             /      \______\ 
Mobile (703) 732 5679            \       /           /
Fax (202) 404 1122                  \   /           /
baillot@a ...............               \/_____  /
 
http://ait.nrl.navy.mil/people/baillot/
http://ait.nrl.navy.mil/vrlab/projects/BARS/BARS.html
___________________________________________
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Greg Erdmann 
To: arforum@t ......... 
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 6:20 AM
Subject: [ARFORUM] wireless tracking
 
Oliver (and Yohan):
 
Please excuse me for the brief "sales-oriented" reply, but thought that it would be important for the AR community to know the following exists:
 
Please also consider the fact that Ascension's new ReActor active-optical system is a great system to consider and may "meet" some of your requirements below depending on what your definitions are:
1. fast: report rate up to 120 Hz
2. stable, precise: accuracy +/- 2mm RMS and consistent throughout entire capture volume
3. Cheap: $89K, which includes 540 digital cameras in fixed frame
4. robust: No moving parts, all solid state (no camera lenses)
5. Flexible: Frame size is adjustable
 
See: http://www.ascension-tech.com/products/reactor/
- Greg Erdmann
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: yohan baillot [mailto:baillot@a ...............]
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 4:23 PM
To: arforum@t .........
Subject: Re: [ARFORUM] wireless tracking
 
Dear Oliver,
 
"fast, stable, precise, cheap, easy to integrate, easy
to maintain, robust, and flexible" dont go together :)
 
I will recommend Vicon myself for your requirements
 
Then there are wired solutions that are from InterSense
and 3DTech.
 
Yohan
 
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oliver Bimber" <obimber@r .................>
To: <arforum@t .........>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 5:30 AM
Subject: [ARFORUM] wireless tracking
 
 
> hi everyone,
> for our Virtual Showcase setups, we're looking for an optical (and other
> wireless) tracking solutions that support head-tracking (but possibly also
> tracking of interaction devices). For head-tracking, we require 3D
position
> information, only.
> However, for input devices we would need 6DOF.
> The solution should be extendable to support multiple (up to four) users
> simultaneously (we can use multiple networked PCs for this). If optical,
> the solution should not be effected much by the lighting conditions,
> surrounding the setup (e.g. IR or ultra-sonic).
> Finally, it should be fast, stable, precise, cheap, easy to integrate,
easy
> to maintain, robust, and flexible ;-)
> Does anybody know such a system?
> Thanks,
> --oliver
> ps. don't take the last sentence too serious...
> +--------------+-------------------------------------------------------+
> |   |  |_|_|_|_| Oliver Bimber   | URL:  http://www.crcg.edu/ |
> | __|__|_|_|_|_| Senior Researcher   | EMAIL:obimber@c .......     |
> |   |  |_|_|_|_|   |        |
> | __|__|_|_|_|_| Human Media Technologies |        |
> |   __ _  __ __| Fraunhofer CRCG, Inc.   |        |
> |  /  /_//  /_ | 321 South Main St.   | PH :(+1) 401 453-6363 x124 |
> | /_ / |/_ /_/ | Providence,RI 02903,USA  | FAX:(+1) 401 453-0444      |
> +--------------+-------------------------------------------------------+
>
>
 
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==^================================================================
 
Regards,
 
Gregory S. Erdmann
Global Account Manager
 
Ascension Technology Corporation
PO Box 527, Burlington, VT 05402 USA
Tel: (802) 893-6657 Fax: (802) 893-6659
email:        greg@a .................
web site:   http://www.ascension-tech.com/
ftp site:       ftp://ftp.ascension-tech.com/pub/ascension-tech.com/
 
Magnetic, optical and inertial motion tracking technologies 
for computer graphics applications.
 
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