Rodney Berry (rodney@a ........) wrote:

> It is getting closer to the computing power needed to make a
> 'magic window' type AR viewer.

reminds me.. i saw sony's latest handheld w/ built-in camera and
flip-out screen in a store the other day.. that design would be
killer for an AR 'window'..

Ryan

-- 
Ryan Singer :: http://feltpresence.com

"We are accidents waiting to happen."
  - Thom Yorke

I would stay away from this graphics adapter name, all of the computer I
had with this type of graphics adpater are SLOOOOOWWWWW. Is there any
nvidia equipped tablet out there?

Yohan

On Tue, 24 Dec 2002, Rodney Berry wrote:

> Further thoughts about tablet PCs for AR.
>
> http://www3.toshiba.co.jp/tdirect/eng/products/p3500/index.htm
>
> The Toshiba Portege 3500 series look good too. My only reservation is
> that I don't know much about the  Trident Cyber ALADDiN-T 16Mb graphics
> controller. actually I think it uses 16Mb of the system's memory for
> video ram? I haven't found any info about this graphics controller or it
> performance compared with others used in lightweight notebooks and
> tablet pcs.
>
> However, the CPU is a P3 1.3Ghz and there's room for lots of RAM and HD
> etc. no surprise that the weight is a bit more than the compaq and acer
> ones and it goes through batteries pretty quick (according to reviewers,
> not toshiba who say about 4 hours). I imagine a typical AR useage with a
> USB2 camera attached would give you just over 2 hours of battery.
>
> It is getting closer to the computing power needed to make a 'magic
> window' type AR viewer.
>
> Rod.
>
>


_______________________________________________________________________

 Yohan BAILLOT

 Virtual Reality Laboratory,
 Advanced Information Technology (Code 5580),
 Naval Research Laboratory,
 4555 Overlook Avenue SW,
 Washington, DC  20375-5337

 Email	: baillot@a ...............
 Work		: (202) 404 7801
 Home 	: (202) 518 3960
 Cell 	: (703) 732 5679
 Fax  	: (202) 767 1122
 Web		: http://ait.nrl.navy.mil/vrlab/projects/BARS/BARS.html

_______________________________________________________________________


 

Further thoughts about tablet PCs for AR.

http://www3.toshiba.co.jp/tdirect/eng/products/p3500/index.htm

The Toshiba Portege 3500 series look good too. My only reservation is 
that I don't know much about the  Trident Cyber ALADDiN-T 16Mb graphics 
controller. actually I think it uses 16Mb of the system's memory for 
video ram? I haven't found any info about this graphics controller or it 
performance compared with others used in lightweight notebooks and 
tablet pcs.

However, the CPU is a P3 1.3Ghz and there's room for lots of RAM and HD 
etc. no surprise that the weight is a bit more than the compaq and acer 
ones and it goes through batteries pretty quick (according to reviewers, 
not toshiba who say about 4 hours). I imagine a typical AR useage with a 
USB2 camera attached would give you just over 2 hours of battery.

It is getting closer to the computing power needed to make a 'magic 
window' type AR viewer.

Rod.

What have people been thinking about for applications of tablet PC's and 
AR?  (I'm curious since right now I'm doing Tablet PC application 
development, and also trying to get an AR project started, but they're 
unrelated.)

Peter

Rodney Berry wrote:

> Further thoughts about tablet PCs for AR.
>
> http://www3.toshiba.co.jp/tdirect/eng/products/p3500/index.htm
>
> The Toshiba Portege 3500 series look good too. My only reservation is 
> that I don't know much about the  Trident Cyber ALADDiN-T 16Mb 
> graphics controller. actually I think it uses 16Mb of the system's 
> memory for video ram? I haven't found any info about this graphics 
> controller or it performance compared with others used in lightweight 
> notebooks and tablet pcs.
>
> However, the CPU is a P3 1.3Ghz and there's room for lots of RAM and 
> HD etc. no surprise that the weight is a bit more than the compaq and 
> acer ones and it goes through batteries pretty quick (according to 
> reviewers, not toshiba who say about 4 hours). I imagine a typical AR 
> useage with a USB2 camera attached would give you just over 2 hours of 
> battery.
>
> It is getting closer to the computing power needed to make a 'magic 
> window' type AR viewer.
>
> Rod.
>
>


 

I found a tablet pc site with the following comparison table:
http://www.tabletpctalk.com/faqs/hwcomparison.shtml

various reviewers found the 1ghz crusoe cpus (such as in the compaq 
TC1000 and FIC Crystal to be still sluggish compared to PIIIs with 
slower clock rates.



I think you could run ARToolkit stuff on several of these machines but 
not with a great number of polygons etc. I think the next wave of tablet 
pcs will be more viable.

I guess we are just not a market yet.

I think that we need to do some engineering on a social level now to 
reach a point in our lifetimes when new computers come out with big 
"AR-Ready!" stickers on the box.

Rod.

Yohan Baillot wrote:

> I would stay away from this graphics adapter name, all of the computer I
> had with this type of graphics adpater are SLOOOOOWWWWW. Is there any
> nvidia equipped tablet out there?
> 
> Yohan
> 
> On Tue, 24 Dec 2002, Rodney Berry wrote:
> 
> 
>>Further thoughts about tablet PCs for AR.
>>
>>http://www3.toshiba.co.jp/tdirect/eng/products/p3500/index.htm
>>
>>The Toshiba Portege 3500 series look good too. My only reservation is
>>that I don't know much about the  Trident Cyber ALADDiN-T 16Mb graphics
>>controller. actually I think it uses 16Mb of the system's memory for
>>video ram? I haven't found any info about this graphics controller or it
>>performance compared with others used in lightweight notebooks and
>>tablet pcs.
>>
>>However, the CPU is a P3 1.3Ghz and there's room for lots of RAM and HD
>>etc. no surprise that the weight is a bit more than the compaq and acer
>>ones and it goes through batteries pretty quick (according to reviewers,
>>not toshiba who say about 4 hours). I imagine a typical AR useage with a
>>USB2 camera attached would give you just over 2 hours of battery.
>>
>>It is getting closer to the computing power needed to make a 'magic
>>window' type AR viewer.
>>
>>Rod.
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________________________________
> 
>  Yohan BAILLOT
> 
>  Virtual Reality Laboratory,
>  Advanced Information Technology (Code 5580),
>  Naval Research Laboratory,
>  4555 Overlook Avenue SW,
>  Washington, DC  20375-5337
> 
>  Email	: baillot@a ...............
>  Work		: (202) 404 7801
>  Home 	: (202) 518 3960
>  Cell 	: (703) 732 5679
>  Fax  	: (202) 767 1122
>  Web		: http://ait.nrl.navy.mil/vrlab/projects/BARS/BARS.html
> 
> _______________________________________________________________________
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Dear all,

http://members.cox.net/portablepc/index.shtml

I found a group of people developing a tablet pc intended for wireless 
gaming. Because of this focus shift away from the 'doctor or manager on 
the move' picture of the tablet user, maybe they will be aiming for 
faster CPU and realtime 3D graphics performance.

If it also includes good avenues for video capture (say USB2) neccessary 
for camera-see-through augmented reality such as the ARToolkit, it would 
be a great machine for our purposes.

I guess their success or failure will be tied to how the tablet market 
goes down with the consumers over the next 6 months.

Rod.

ATR Media Information Science Labs
Kyoto

Trident chipsets have been notoriously bad for many years now, they are only
put in the cheapest graphics adaptors for budget PCs, and are generally
awful.

A sales rep from HP/Compaq came and showed us the specs for their latest
tablet PC though and it used a NVidia GeForce2, which is a very nice chipset
for AR and supported under Linux.

regards,
Wayne

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wayne Piekarski - PhD Researcher / Lecturer      pho:        +61-8-8302-3669
                                                 fax:        +61-8-8302-3381
Tinmith Project - Wearable Computer Lab          mob:           0407-395-889
Advanced Computing Research Centre               ema:  wayne@c ..............
University of South Australia                    www: http://www.tinmith.net


----- Original Message -----
From: "Yohan Baillot" <baillot@a ...............>
To: "Rodney Berry" <rodney@a ........>
Cc: "ARToolkit Mailing list" <artoolkit@h ..................>
Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2002 2:37 AM
Subject: Re: more tablet toys...


>
> I would stay away from this graphics adapter name, all of the computer I
> had with this type of graphics adpater are SLOOOOOWWWWW. Is there any
> nvidia equipped tablet out there?
>
> Yohan
>
> On Tue, 24 Dec 2002, Rodney Berry wrote:
>
> > Further thoughts about tablet PCs for AR.
> >
> > http://www3.toshiba.co.jp/tdirect/eng/products/p3500/index.htm
> >
> > The Toshiba Portege 3500 series look good too. My only reservation is
> > that I don't know much about the  Trident Cyber ALADDiN-T 16Mb graphics
> > controller. actually I think it uses 16Mb of the system's memory for
> > video ram? I haven't found any info about this graphics controller or it
> > performance compared with others used in lightweight notebooks and
> > tablet pcs.
> >
> > However, the CPU is a P3 1.3Ghz and there's room for lots of RAM and HD
> > etc. no surprise that the weight is a bit more than the compaq and acer
> > ones and it goes through batteries pretty quick (according to reviewers,
> > not toshiba who say about 4 hours). I imagine a typical AR useage with a
> > USB2 camera attached would give you just over 2 hours of battery.
> >
> > It is getting closer to the computing power needed to make a 'magic
> > window' type AR viewer.
> >
> > Rod.
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
>
>  Yohan BAILLOT
>
>  Virtual Reality Laboratory,
>  Advanced Information Technology (Code 5580),
>  Naval Research Laboratory,
>  4555 Overlook Avenue SW,
>  Washington, DC  20375-5337
>
>  Email : baillot@a ...............
>  Work : (202) 404 7801
>  Home : (202) 518 3960
>  Cell : (703) 732 5679
>  Fax  : (202) 767 1122
>  Web : http://ait.nrl.navy.mil/vrlab/projects/BARS/BARS.html
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
>
>

 

It's frustrating at the moment as the ones with good graphics cards have 
slower cpus (the compaq has a Crusoe 1Ghz chip that apparently is 
noticably sluggish for many tasks) whereas the toshiba has a 1gHz P3 but 
has the trident for graphics. Are they doing this deliberately to annoy 
us? I guess battery life and weight matters more for mos tabllet users 
in the business world.

for the hard core folk, theres the millitary type one...
http://www.xploretech.com/ix104/iX104.html
It must cost a bit :)

it uses the intel graphics processor that I think uses up to 48mb of 
system ram for the graphics. anyone tried this type of graphics gear?

rod.

Wayne Piekarski wrote:

> Trident chipsets have been notoriously bad for many years now, they are only
> put in the cheapest graphics adaptors for budget PCs, and are generally
> awful.
> 
> A sales rep from HP/Compaq came and showed us the specs for their latest
> tablet PC though and it used a NVidia GeForce2, which is a very nice chipset
> for AR and supported under Linux.
> 
> regards,
> Wayne
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Wayne Piekarski - PhD Researcher / Lecturer      pho:        +61-8-8302-3669
>                                                  fax:        +61-8-8302-3381
> Tinmith Project - Wearable Computer Lab          mob:           0407-395-889
> Advanced Computing Research Centre               ema:  wayne@c ..............
> University of South Australia                    www: http://www.tinmith.net
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Yohan Baillot" <baillot@a ...............>
> To: "Rodney Berry" <rodney@a ........>
> Cc: "ARToolkit Mailing list" <artoolkit@h ..................>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2002 2:37 AM
> Subject: Re: more tablet toys...
> 
> 
> 
>>I would stay away from this graphics adapter name, all of the computer I
>>had with this type of graphics adpater are SLOOOOOWWWWW. Is there any
>>nvidia equipped tablet out there?
>>
>>Yohan
>>
>>On Tue, 24 Dec 2002, Rodney Berry wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Further thoughts about tablet PCs for AR.
>>>
>>>http://www3.toshiba.co.jp/tdirect/eng/products/p3500/index.htm
>>>
>>>The Toshiba Portege 3500 series look good too. My only reservation is
>>>that I don't know much about the  Trident Cyber ALADDiN-T 16Mb graphics
>>>controller. actually I think it uses 16Mb of the system's memory for
>>>video ram? I haven't found any info about this graphics controller or it
>>>performance compared with others used in lightweight notebooks and
>>>tablet pcs.
>>>
>>>However, the CPU is a P3 1.3Ghz and there's room for lots of RAM and HD
>>>etc. no surprise that the weight is a bit more than the compaq and acer
>>>ones and it goes through batteries pretty quick (according to reviewers,
>>>not toshiba who say about 4 hours). I imagine a typical AR useage with a
>>>USB2 camera attached would give you just over 2 hours of battery.
>>>
>>>It is getting closer to the computing power needed to make a 'magic
>>>window' type AR viewer.
>>>
>>>Rod.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________________________________
>>
>> Yohan BAILLOT
>>
>> Virtual Reality Laboratory,
>> Advanced Information Technology (Code 5580),
>> Naval Research Laboratory,
>> 4555 Overlook Avenue SW,
>> Washington, DC  20375-5337
>>
>> Email : baillot@a ...............
>> Work : (202) 404 7801
>> Home : (202) 518 3960
>> Cell : (703) 732 5679
>> Fax  : (202) 767 1122
>> Web : http://ait.nrl.navy.mil/vrlab/projects/BARS/BARS.html
>>
>>_______________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 


 

Good graphics processors chew up lots of power. So a simple 2D graphics chip
will use a *lot* less power than say a GeForce4 will. The latest and
greatest GPUs all require heat sinks, and this usually implies that they
burn lots of power to run. I guess GPUs these days are starting to draw
power at levels similar to that of a CPU, and so the unit selected has a big
impact on the running time.

So most manufacturers probably make these tradeoffs in order to keep the
battery life up - if you had the best of everything it wouldn't run for very
long :)

regards,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rodney Berry" <rodney@a ........>
To: "ARToolkit Mailing list" <artoolkit@h ..................>
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: more tablet toys...


> It's frustrating at the moment as the ones with good graphics cards have
> slower cpus (the compaq has a Crusoe 1Ghz chip that apparently is
> noticably sluggish for many tasks) whereas the toshiba has a 1gHz P3 but
> has the trident for graphics. Are they doing this deliberately to annoy
> us? I guess battery life and weight matters more for mos tabllet users
> in the business world.
>
> for the hard core folk, theres the millitary type one...
> http://www.xploretech.com/ix104/iX104.html
> It must cost a bit :)
>
> it uses the intel graphics processor that I think uses up to 48mb of
> system ram for the graphics. anyone tried this type of graphics gear?
>
> rod.
>
> Wayne Piekarski wrote:
>
> > Trident chipsets have been notoriously bad for many years now, they are
only
> > put in the cheapest graphics adaptors for budget PCs, and are generally
> > awful.
> >
> > A sales rep from HP/Compaq came and showed us the specs for their latest
> > tablet PC though and it used a NVidia GeForce2, which is a very nice
chipset
> > for AR and supported under Linux.
> >
> > regards,
> > Wayne
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> > Wayne Piekarski - PhD Researcher / Lecturer      pho:
+61-8-8302-3669
> >                                                  fax:
+61-8-8302-3381
> > Tinmith Project - Wearable Computer Lab          mob:
0407-395-889
> > Advanced Computing Research Centre               ema:
wayne@c ..............
> > University of South Australia                    www:
http://www.tinmith.net
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Yohan Baillot" <baillot@a ...............>
> > To: "Rodney Berry" <rodney@a ........>
> > Cc: "ARToolkit Mailing list" <artoolkit@h ..................>
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2002 2:37 AM
> > Subject: Re: more tablet toys...
> >
> >
> >
> >>I would stay away from this graphics adapter name, all of the computer I
> >>had with this type of graphics adpater are SLOOOOOWWWWW. Is there any
> >>nvidia equipped tablet out there?
> >>
> >>Yohan
> >>
> >>On Tue, 24 Dec 2002, Rodney Berry wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Further thoughts about tablet PCs for AR.
> >>>
> >>>http://www3.toshiba.co.jp/tdirect/eng/products/p3500/index.htm
> >>>
> >>>The Toshiba Portege 3500 series look good too. My only reservation is
> >>>that I don't know much about the  Trident Cyber ALADDiN-T 16Mb graphics
> >>>controller. actually I think it uses 16Mb of the system's memory for
> >>>video ram? I haven't found any info about this graphics controller or
it
> >>>performance compared with others used in lightweight notebooks and
> >>>tablet pcs.
> >>>
> >>>However, the CPU is a P3 1.3Ghz and there's room for lots of RAM and HD
> >>>etc. no surprise that the weight is a bit more than the compaq and acer
> >>>ones and it goes through batteries pretty quick (according to
reviewers,
> >>>not toshiba who say about 4 hours). I imagine a typical AR useage with
a
> >>>USB2 camera attached would give you just over 2 hours of battery.
> >>>
> >>>It is getting closer to the computing power needed to make a 'magic
> >>>window' type AR viewer.
> >>>
> >>>Rod.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________________________________
> >>
> >> Yohan BAILLOT
> >>
> >> Virtual Reality Laboratory,
> >> Advanced Information Technology (Code 5580),
> >> Naval Research Laboratory,
> >> 4555 Overlook Avenue SW,
> >> Washington, DC  20375-5337
> >>
> >> Email : baillot@a ...............
> >> Work : (202) 404 7801
> >> Home : (202) 518 3960
> >> Cell : (703) 732 5679
> >> Fax  : (202) 767 1122
> >> Web : http://ait.nrl.navy.mil/vrlab/projects/BARS/BARS.html
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>