// ARToolkit on a mobile device: hardware suggestions //

hi,

i'm looking at buying a sufficiently powerful handheld device for use
with ARToolkit. my development environment is Linux.

what are my best options these days? i last explored ARToolkit on
handhelds several years ago.

i'm most interested in any device that will give me the best 
performance for as little money as possible, whether PDA-like or phone.

thanks,

julian

-- 
http://julianoliver.com
http://selectparks.net
emails containing HTML will not be read.

From:	Julian Oliver <julian@s ..............>	Received:	Jul 31, 2007
To	artoolkit@h ..................
Subject:	// ARToolkit on a mobile device: hardware suggestions //
hi, i'm looking at buying a sufficiently powerful handheld device for use with ARToolkit. my development environment is Linux. what are my best options these days? i last explored ARToolkit on handhelds several years ago. i'm most interested in any device that will give me the best performance for as little money as possible, whether PDA-like or phone. thanks, julian -- http://julianoliver.com http://selectparks.net emails containing HTML will not be read.

From:	Daniel Wagner <daniel@i ...............>	Received:	Jul 31, 2007
To	ARToolKit Mailinglist <artoolkit@h ..................>
Subject:	Re: // ARToolkit on a mobile device: hardware suggestions //
Hi Julian, please specify your target platform more clearly. With "mobile device" do you mean a notebook, a UMPC or a mobile phone? If you are talking about notebooks then you have plenty of choices. For UMPCs, most researchers today use the VAIO UX series. These are quite powerful devices that should also run Linux. If you talk about mobile phones then - unfortunately - you can mostly forget about Linux at the moment. You can use the Qtopia Greenphone (http://trolltech.com/products/qtopia/greenphone) but this is a pure developer device. For pure research purposes this should be ok, but if you target practical applications you'll have to decide between Symbian and Windows Mobile. Furthermore you'll not want to use ARToolKit for this device class since it is not optimized for ARM CPUs (which have no FPU) and therefore very slow. In this case you should rather use ARToolKitPlus which is roughly 50 times faster on these devices. bye, Daniel Julian Oliver wrote: > hi, > > i'm looking at buying a sufficiently powerful handheld device for use > with ARToolkit. my development environment is Linux. > > what are my best options these days? i last explored ARToolkit on > handhelds several years ago. > > i'm most interested in any device that will give me the best > performance for as little money as possible, whether PDA-like or phone. > > thanks, > > julian > >

From:	Julian Oliver <julian@s ..............>	Received:	Jul 31, 2007
To	Daniel Wagner <daniel@i ...............>, ARToolkit Mailing List <artoolkit@h ..................>
Subject:	Re: // ARToolkit on a mobile device: hardware suggestions //
..on or around Tue, Jul 31, 2007 at 09:06:28AM +0200, Daniel Wagner said: > > please specify your target platform more clearly. With "mobile device" > do you mean a notebook, a UMPC or a mobile phone? > i'm looking for a 'handheld' device, my subject was misleading. > If you are talking about notebooks then you have plenty of choices. > For UMPCs, most researchers today use the VAIO UX series. These are > quite powerful devices that should also run Linux. > ok, noted. > If you talk about mobile phones then - unfortunately - you can mostly > forget about Linux at the moment. > You can use the Qtopia Greenphone > (http://trolltech.com/products/qtopia/greenphone) but this is a pure > developer device. For pure research purposes this should be ok, but if > you target practical applications you'll have to decide between Symbian > and Windows Mobile. Furthermore you'll not want to use ARToolKit for > this device class since it is not optimized for ARM CPUs (which have no > FPU) and therefore very slow. In this case you should rather use > ARToolKitPlus which is roughly 50 times faster on these devices. > thanks, i wasn't aware ARToolkitPlus offered such a speedup on the ARM arch. i'll have a look at a sufficiently powerful Symbian phone and consider the Trolltech. i also see that the Phase2 OpenMoko has 3D acceleration and goes on sale in October: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 cheers, julian > > Julian Oliver wrote: > > hi, > > > > i'm looking at buying a sufficiently powerful handheld device for use > > with ARToolkit. my development environment is Linux. > > > > what are my best options these days? i last explored ARToolkit on > > handhelds several years ago. > > > > i'm most interested in any device that will give me the best > > performance for as little money as possible, whether PDA-like or phone. > > > > thanks, > > > > julian > > > > -- http://julianoliver.com http://selectparks.net emails containing HTML will not be read.

From:	Julian Oliver <julian@s ..............>	Received:	Jul 31, 2007
To	ARToolkit Mailing List <artoolkit@h ..................>
Subject:	Re: // ARToolkit on a mobile device: hardware suggestions //
..on or around Tue, Jul 31, 2007 at 11:34:52AM +0300, CLG said: > Julian Oliver wrote: > ... > > >thanks, i wasn't aware ARToolkitPlus offered such a speedup on > >the ARM > >arch. i'll have a look at a sufficiently powerful Symbian phone > >and consider the Trolltech. > > If you are not financially restricted Nokia N93 and N95 have FPU, > which should make any calculations extremely easy. They also have > hardware accelerated OpenGL and even DSP (not sure if DSP > accessible through Symbian API though). Nokia N93 and N95 also > claim 30 fps camera, which I doubt for N95 at least. It looks to > me it has the same 15 fps camera as the rest of symbian phones. > Cheapest solution would be any Symbian camera-phone. I've > successfully implemented markers registration on the Nokia 6600, > which is as low as symbian phones go - 107mhz cpu. It was not > ARToolkit/ARToolkitPlus - they weren't robust enough for me, I had > to write completly new registration pipeline from scratch to make > it work. Pure registration run at about 8 FPS. Complete AR game > with OpenGL graphics and physics simulation run at 5-6 fps (with > fixed point calculations). > this is great information. much appreciated. > Beware Nokia N93/N95 are Symbian 9.1 and any application require > digital signing (check "Symbian Signed"). > argh.. > > > >i also see that the Phase2 OpenMoko has 3D acceleration and goes > >on sale in October: > > > > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 > > > > OpenMoko have no camera and no plans for camera in the next > version. Which is a pity. yep it is. i was imagining this as a last option, perhaps using a webcam mounted in clothing or similar. the OpenMoko has mini-usb. > Symbian programming is a pure hell. > i've heard. i've never done any but people i've met speak of pain and purgatory. i'd really love to be developing in and for Linux so the Trolltech phone Daniel mentioned looks appealing. a little limiting where audiences are concerned however.. cheers, julian -- http://julianoliver.com http://selectparks.net emails containing HTML will not be read.

From:	CLG <admin@c .............>	Received:	Jul 31, 2007
To	ARtoolkit forum <artoolkit@h ..................>
Subject:	Re: // ARToolkit on a mobile device: hardware suggestions //
Julian Oliver wrote: ... > thanks, i wasn't aware ARToolkitPlus offered such a speedup on the ARM > arch. i'll have a look at a sufficiently powerful Symbian phone and > consider the Trolltech. If you are not financially restricted Nokia N93 and N95 have FPU, which should make any calculations extremely easy. They also have hardware accelerated OpenGL and even DSP (not sure if DSP accessible through Symbian API though). Nokia N93 and N95 also claim 30 fps camera, which I doubt for N95 at least. It looks to me it has the same 15 fps camera as the rest of symbian phones. Cheapest solution would be any Symbian camera-phone. I've successfully implemented markers registration on the Nokia 6600, which is as low as symbian phones go - 107mhz cpu. It was not ARToolkit/ARToolkitPlus - they weren't robust enough for me, I had to write completly new registration pipeline from scratch to make it work. Pure registration run at about 8 FPS. Complete AR game with OpenGL graphics and physics simulation run at 5-6 fps (with fixed point calculations). Beware Nokia N93/N95 are Symbian 9.1 and any application require digital signing (check "Symbian Signed"). > > i also see that the Phase2 OpenMoko has 3D acceleration and goes on > sale in October: > > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 > OpenMoko have no camera and no plans for camera in the next version. Which is a pity. Symbian programming is a pure hell.