One of my students is porting ARTK+ to the N95;  when we get it  
working, I'll give it back to Daniel.

The bigger problem with the N95, it turns out, is getting video  
efficiently.  Symbian returns video in some weird buffer format that  
is NOT just a straight buffer of pixels, and we haven't had much luck  
converting it efficiently to something the ARTK+ can use, and that we  
can load into texture memory ... any help with that would be  
appreciated (if someone has done it).

On Sep 17, 2007, at 6:11 AM, Eran Schaffer wrote:

> Hi Daniel, thanks for the response.
> I was actually planning on trying to port an application to a nokia  
> n95
> phone, which I think does have an FPU (but not sure)..
> Is the code that was ported available anywhere?
> I never actually tried the ARTK+, is the symbian version "out of  
> the box"
> with its sources?
>
> Thanks again, ES
>
>
>
>
> On 9/17/07, Daniel Wagner <daniel@i ...............> wrote:
>>
>> hi Eran,
>>
>> ARToolKit will not run out of the box on Symbian (neither on Windows
>> CE), due to exhaustive memory usage.
>> Anders Henrysson make a port that runs very well on Symbian several
>> years ago.
>> ARTK+ also runs on Symbian (at least in the emulator).
>>
>> Fixing the memory problems is the smaller task.
>> Symbian phones usually do not have an FPU, and ARTK would  
>> therefore run
>> incredibly slow.
>> You'll have to replace lots of code with fixed point counterparts...
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>>
>>
>> Eran Schaffer wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> Has anyone ever tried / managed to build the artoolkit for the  
>>> symbian
>> OS,
>>> specifically s60?
>>> Thanks, ES
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>>
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Hi all,
Has anyone ever tried / managed to build the artoolkit for the symbian OS,
specifically s60?
Thanks, ES
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hi Eran,

ARToolKit will not run out of the box on Symbian (neither on Windows
CE), due to exhaustive memory usage.
Anders Henrysson make a port that runs very well on Symbian several
years ago.
ARTK+ also runs on Symbian (at least in the emulator).

Fixing the memory problems is the smaller task.
Symbian phones usually do not have an FPU, and ARTK would therefore run
incredibly slow.
You'll have to replace lots of code with fixed point counterparts...

Daniel



Eran Schaffer wrote:
> Hi all,
> Has anyone ever tried / managed to build the artoolkit for the symbian OS,
> specifically s60?
> Thanks, ES
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> http://www.hitlabnz.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/artoolkit
>   

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Hi Daniel, thanks for the response.
I was actually planning on trying to port an application to a nokia n95
phone, which I think does have an FPU (but not sure)..
Is the code that was ported available anywhere?
I never actually tried the ARTK+, is the symbian version "out of the box"
with its sources?

Thanks again, ES




On 9/17/07, Daniel Wagner <daniel@i ...............> wrote:
>
> hi Eran,
>
> ARToolKit will not run out of the box on Symbian (neither on Windows
> CE), due to exhaustive memory usage.
> Anders Henrysson make a port that runs very well on Symbian several
> years ago.
> ARTK+ also runs on Symbian (at least in the emulator).
>
> Fixing the memory problems is the smaller task.
> Symbian phones usually do not have an FPU, and ARTK would therefore run
> incredibly slow.
> You'll have to replace lots of code with fixed point counterparts...
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
> Eran Schaffer wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > Has anyone ever tried / managed to build the artoolkit for the symbian
> OS,
> > specifically s60?
> > Thanks, ES
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> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> > ARToolKit mailing list
> > ARToolKit@w ...............
> > http://www.hitlabnz.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/artoolkit
> >
>
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The N95 does have an FPU, although I can't tell you how difficult it
would be to use it (never tried it).
>From my tests with FPUs on Windows CE phones (same OMAP 2420 cpu as in
the N95), I can report that hardware floating point is ~20-30 times
faster than software floating point on these devices, which means
similar speed to integer (fixed point) processing.

To my knowledge the Symbian version of ARTK is not available.

As I already wrote: If floating point is not an issue, then porting is
not that difficult.
All you have to do is make the static memory usage dynamic and
streamline it to use less memory (by reducing some preprocessor
definition values).
If you don't want to port at all (except writing make files), maybe give
ARTK+ a try.
I can't help you though with details on these Symbian things...

Daniel



Eran Schaffer wrote:
> Hi Daniel, thanks for the response.
> I was actually planning on trying to port an application to a nokia n95
> phone, which I think does have an FPU (but not sure)..
> Is the code that was ported available anywhere?
> I never actually tried the ARTK+, is the symbian version "out of the box"
> with its sources?
>   

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I don't know in which aspects the N95 differs from e.g. N73 on which I 
have managed to run ARTK, but there seems to be some compatibility 
issues from what I have heard. To get video on the N73 I simply use the 
viewfinder functions to obtain bitmaps. A single memcpy is then used to 
get the ARTK bitmap, and the background texture is obtained by swapping 
byte order (BGR to RGB) in the bitmap. This might not be 
possible/optimal on the N95 though.
 
I would however suggest to go for ARTK+ since this is far more optimized 
for handheld devices.

/Anders

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Hi,
Actually the camera might not be a problem in my app, since it needs
multiple cameras, and so will not be using the built in phone camera. Do you
think that might present a problem by itself (other then finding an external
camera for a phone ...)

Also, I read about the Studierstube ES solution, can anyone send me a link
to read more about it?

Thanks, ES


On 9/17/07, Anders Henrysson <andhe@i .........> wrote:
>
> I don't know in which aspects the N95 differs from e.g. N73 on which I
> have managed to run ARTK, but there seems to be some compatibility
> issues from what I have heard. To get video on the N73 I simply use the
> viewfinder functions to obtain bitmaps. A single memcpy is then used to
> get the ARTK bitmap, and the background texture is obtained by swapping
> byte order (BGR to RGB) in the bitmap. This might not be
> possible/optimal on the N95 though.
>
> I would however suggest to go for ARTK+ since this is far more optimized
> for handheld devices.
>
> /Anders
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARToolKit mailing list
> ARToolKit@w ...............
> http://www.hitlabnz.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/artoolkit
>
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hi Eran,

You can find some basic information about Studierstube ES on my project
page at:
http://studierstube.org/handheld_ar/stbes.php
(the page is a bit outdated though...)

If you have technical questions, feel free to post them or mail me directly.

If you want details on licensing, please contact Istvan Barakonyi at
istvan (at) imagination.at

Daniel



Eran Schaffer wrote:
> Hi,
> Actually the camera might not be a problem in my app, since it needs
> multiple cameras, and so will not be using the built in phone camera. Do you
> think that might present a problem by itself (other then finding an external
> camera for a phone ...)
>
> Also, I read about the Studierstube ES solution, can anyone send me a link
> to read more about it?
>
> Thanks, ES
>   

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Anders Henrysson wrote:
> I don't know in which aspects the N95 differs from e.g. N73 on which I 
> have managed to run ARTK, but there seems to be some compatibility 
> issues from what I have heard. To get video on the N73 I simply use the 
> viewfinder functions to obtain bitmaps. A single memcpy is then used to 
> get the ARTK bitmap, and the background texture is obtained by swapping 
> byte order (BGR to RGB) in the bitmap. This might not be 
> possible/optimal on the N95 though.
Did you have any problem with symbian signing ? Is self-signing enough 
or you had bought Publisher ID ?
I'm planning to port my tracker from Symbian 7.1s to Symbian 9.*, but 
capabilities and signing is scaring me. I mostly worrying about access 
to camera. Does camera access require any capabilities ? I don't want to 
spend money on N95 only to find I can not install my application on it, 
or pay shitload of money for Publisher ID. Also I had read they changed 
developer certificate policy month ago. Seems one will not be able to 
get developer certificate for free any more -> not possible to install 
application which require capabilities.

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For the N73, self-signing was enough. USER ENVIRONMENT is the only 
capability needed for the camera. A self-signed AR application will pop 
up a security alert asking the user to accept that the app uses the 
camera etc. I also wrote a recognizer that enabled me to associate file 
endings with applications, and that needed a (then free) certificate 
tied to the phones' IMEI number. There was however supposed to be a 
possibility to get a free certificate for freeware.

This applied to the N73 a while ago and I can't swear that it also 
applies to the N95 today.

/Anders

CLG skrev:
> Anders Henrysson wrote:
>   
>> I don't know in which aspects the N95 differs from e.g. N73 on which I 
>> have managed to run ARTK, but there seems to be some compatibility 
>> issues from what I have heard. To get video on the N73 I simply use the 
>> viewfinder functions to obtain bitmaps. A single memcpy is then used to 
>> get the ARTK bitmap, and the background texture is obtained by swapping 
>> byte order (BGR to RGB) in the bitmap. This might not be 
>> possible/optimal on the N95 though.
>>     
> Did you have any problem with symbian signing ? Is self-signing enough 
> or you had bought Publisher ID ?
> I'm planning to port my tracker from Symbian 7.1s to Symbian 9.*, but 
> capabilities and signing is scaring me. I mostly worrying about access 
> to camera. Does camera access require any capabilities ? I don't want to 
> spend money on N95 only to find I can not install my application on it, 
> or pay shitload of money for Publisher ID. Also I had read they changed 
> developer certificate policy month ago. Seems one will not be able to 
> get developer certificate for free any more -> not possible to install 
> application which require capabilities.
>
> _______________________________________________
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Hi,
Well I am not sure how exactly, but I assume I will use one main camera, and
another one once a second or so... so it shouldn't be that hard on
performance.
Was your back and front experiment on a handheld machine? If so , what kind
of camera have you used?

Thanks, ES

-----Original Message-----
From: artoolkit-bounces@w ...............
[mailto:artoolkit-bounces@w ...............] On Behalf Of Anders Henrysson
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 4:54 PM
To: artoolkit@w ...............
Subject: Re: [ARToolKit] Running ARToolkit on symbian s60

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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Hi,
How do you plan to interface multiple external cameras? This sounds to
be much more of a challenge than running ARTK(+).
I have used both back and front camera tracking at the same time, but
that was very slow. The cameras needed to be switched on and off each
frame for it to work, and when switched on they needed a few
consecutive frames to set the white balance, so external cameras is
probably to prefer. 
I think you can avoid most problems if you use identical cameras, thus
not needing to reconfigure the tracker.
Anders
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