From: webber@csd.uwo.ca (Robert E. Webber) Subject: Re: Online Citations and Online Publishing (long) Date: 18 Aug 91 02:36:14 GMT In article <1991Aug17.192029.20398@milton.u.washington.edu> testarne@athena. mit.edu (Thad E Starner) writes: .I have also come across the predicament of on-line citations. . ... .If a format doesn't exist, we should make one and see that the AMA and .all the rest get it. . .How does this sound? . .Last, First_initial. (specific date); username. Subject_line. .Newsjournal (underlined), archive_site. I don't see why one would include username, anymore than one includes an author's street address in a normal citation. Also, the above will often be ambiguous in that many articles from the same author on the same day can have the same subject line. One really wants message-id's to appear, since they were developed specifically to allow a unique reference name for each article. Furthermore, in recognition of the fact that any such citation will be non-standard and novel to many readers, some explanatory text would not be out of order, e.g., the phrase `archived at' in front of the archie_site name. Perhaps even the phrase `in the newsgroup' in front of the newsgroup name. Eventually, as this sort of citation becomes more frequent, such phrases would be dropped, but there is nothing wrong with being understandable. Finally, it is worth noting that this matter has been frequently discussed in the bitnet group pacs-l (which is not surprising since this group is primarily librarians interested in computer network stuff). Although, I never saved any of the discussion, it should still be available from the archives (see note appended below for how to access archives). . Online citations should only be used when other references .can't be found (within reason). Today's library systems are pretty .powerful so as long as people aren't lax there shouldn't be too much .of a problem. For instance, I found a small article in New Scientist .(Josephson, H. New Scientist, Dec. 91, p.14) about the Battletech game . ------------- .after hearing about it on the net. On the other hand, accessing the New Scientist is a lot more of a hassle for me than digging something up in one of the archive sites. The only problem I see with net citations is that the author should keep an archival copy of their own, since you never know when an archive site will vanish for one reason or another and many groups have no backup archives (indeed many groups have no archives at all). .Furthermore, online citations should only be made when there .are public archives (or equivalent) where the reference can be checked. Certainly not. Look at all the references to `personal communications' in the regular literature already (most of which are not available at all). An important aspect of the citation in the regular literature is that it delineates what ideas the author is claiming as original and what ideas the author is borrowing from others. If you get an idea from something posted to the net, then you cite the posting and author REGARDLESS of whether or not the article is publically archived. ---- BOB (webber@csd.uwo.ca) Citation for following info: From: LIBPACS@UHUPVM1.BITNET (Public-Access Computer Systems Forum) Newsgroups: local.comp.pacs Subject: Welcome to PACS-L Message-ID: <0654784984@uwovax.uwo.ca> Date: 1 Oct 90 16:22:58 GMT Info that was following: ... All messages to the conference are automatically archived. PACS-L users can retrieve the monthly archive files as needed. Users also can search the entire message database for specific information using complex Boolean queries. The most reliable method of searching the database is to submit batch search jobs to the list server via e-mail messages. Search features include nested Boolean expressions, search limitation by date and time, and SOUNDEX searches. ... To see what files are available, send the following e-mail message to LISTSERV@UHUPVM1: INDEX PACS-L. To retrieve a file, send the following e-mail message to LISTSERV@UHUPVM1: GET File Name File Type. To retrieve an issue of the Public-Access Computer Systems News, send an e-mail message to LISTSERV@UHUPVM1 containing the appropriate command based on the issue's volume and number: GET PACSNEWS V1N1 GET PACSNEWS V1N2 GET PACSNEWS V1N3 GET PACSNEWS V1N4 GET PACSNEWS V1N5 GET PACSNEWS V1N6 GET PACSNEWS V1N7 GET PACSNEWS V1N8 To retrieve the table of contents file for an issue of The Public-Access Computer Systems Review, send an e-mail message to LISTSERV@UHUPVM1 that contains the appropriate command based on the issue's volume and number: GET CONTENTS PRV1N1 GET CONTENTS PRV1N2 ... 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