From: dstamp@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng)
Subject: Re: sci.vw.tech
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1991 14:29:37 GMT
Message-ID: <1991Dec4.142937.4346@watserv1.waterloo.edu>
Organization: University of Waterloo



jdover01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:

>>>... [I]f a new group must be formed, I agree with Dave Stampe's
>>>suggestion of adding sci.virtual-worlds.tech as a forum for technical
>>>discussions and leaving the societal, CHI, CyberSpatial and
>>>application issues to the parent group.  Yes, there's still overlap
>>>especially when it comes to software architectures, but I think it's a
>>>much fairer split.
>> 
>> A split between technology development and applications would not be in
>> the best interests of the field, either.  It would risk the two never
>> converging, at least in this forum. 
>> I appreciate the need to bind together
>> high and low end participants, but there are people right now 
>> working with PowerGloves, MUDs, and other "low-end" devices who want
>> more explicit discussion and who will not be availing themselves of 
>> larger systems for some time to come.  And the reverse is true, among
>> those who want to build sophisticated applications and who are not
>> involved in 386-based on-screen worlds.
>
>How about the simple addition of a group sci.virtual-worlds.the-glove
>to handle problems with the glove list? 
>
>It seems that to accomplish the mission (that of virtual-worlds) it is
>essential to have the software, hardware, and human-factors engineers
>(and other folks) all together sharing ideas and results from the start.
>It could be inviting disaster otherwise (having to backtrack, picking up
>the pieces wasting precious resources, time & money, &c.)
>
>Prehaps an additional group could alleviate problems associated with the
>glove list if it is understood that is the purpose of the new group and
>not the fragmentation of the parent group.

I'd like to point out my reasons why I feel that sci.v-w.tech is
needed, and why it should stay here (as a subgroup) too.

First, I've surveyed all the other groups mentioned as possible
forums.  Not good.  They're very far off in scope, aim etc.  For
example, if I post questions or stuff in comp.graphics and say 
" this type of renderer is OK for desktop VR, but not for eyephones"
no one will know what I'm talking about, and I'll either have to
explain in depth, or spend the next week answering questions.  If
I post it here, I *know* the audience will not only understand what
I'm saying, but have thought about the problem too!

Now, why do I want a new newsgroup, and not a mailing list?  First, I'm
feeling a bit restricted in this group (good as it is).  When I was
pushing the low-end VR rendering thread, Bob (moderator) informed
me that he had received complaints about it.  Well, that sort of
puts me off discussing some more of the low-level stuff in such detail.
That thread was very helpful, and I know I got a lot out of it, and we 
all got a nice rendering blitter. 

I also got complaints from the glove list too.  And any forum CANNOT
be limited to one small topic such as the glove-- VR is a synthesis of
many technologies and tools, with input devices influencing renderers
influencing displays infuencing....  You get the point.

I really prefer a newsgroup over a mailing list.  First, the reading
tools are better (especially when the traffic gets high).  Second, a
newsgroup has wide distribution and requires no "inside" knowledge
to subscribe to.  You don't get as many "lurkers" on a mailing list.
Also, a lot of people prefer to keep their e-mail seperate from their
hobby/research/etc.

And the group should be kept closely attatched to this newsgroup.
>From the mail I've got, there's a VERY tight link between the "pros"
and the garage VR people, with information flowing both ways. For
those who want only philosopy or conference dates or TV show reviews,
there's sci.v-w.  For the mechanics of VR, add one more newsgroup. 
Sounds fair to me.

In conclusion, I feel very strongly that sci.v-w.tech should be
set up ASAP.  If something isn't done by January, I'm going to have
to do something about it myself (maybe a mailing list to start with)
but something must be done.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| My life is Hardware,                    |                              | 
| my destiny is Software,                 |         Dave Stampe          |
| my CPU is Wetware...                    |                              | 
| Anybody got a SDB I can borrow?         | dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca |
__________________________________________________________________________

[MODERATOR'S NOTE:  I am posting comments from the Moderators Newsgroup
to this thread.  You can see what is involved.  Let's have one more week
of discussion and then I'll post my own strategy to deal with this
situation.  I believe that it will result in a newsgroup of the sort that
Dave recommends.  I am looking for the simplest way to do so. -- Bob
Jacobson]