Hi!

One alternative is http://www.toshiba.com/taisisd/indmed/ikm43ser.htm

It is really small, but quite expensive.

You can get it from e.g. http://www.aegiselect.com/ for ~2500 USD (camera
head, control unit, power and lens). This is the price for the smallest
alternative - the "Micro Head".

It has S-Video output and there is a camera control unit in addition to the
camera head. The control unit requires power from "the wall", but it is
also possible to buy battery packs for it.

Nice picture quality, and approx. 768x494 resolution (might be interlaced -
I'm not sure).


Regards,
Torbjørn



                                                                                                    
              Rodney Berry <rodney@a ........>@h ..................                                   
              23.01.2003 05:12                                                                      
                                                                                                    


Sent by:    owner-artoolkit@h ..................


To:    ARToolkit Mailing list <artoolkit@h ..................>
cc:
Subject:    shopping for cameras...

Security Level:?              Internal

currently I am using Point Grey Dragonfly cameras with head mounted
displays.

Has anyone seen anything better in the small size range?

did anyone manage to get a real price out of silicon concepts for their
super-duper USB2 cameras?

I will probably get another dragonfly or two if there's nothing better
out there.

Rod.

Rod,
The Dragonfly looks pretty good, especially if you can really get it in a 
1024 X 768 native resolution. I didn't see a price on the web site.

The iBOT and similar cameras are basically single board devices. I haven't 
done it yet, but if I ever find enough student help to work on it, my plan 
is to disassemble two iBots and stick them on an iGlasses SVGA HMD. That 
gives you 640 X 480 and the price is right ($80 per camera or less). They 
still are a bit bulky though, the board being about 2.5" in diameter.

What ever happened to the Canon HMD display with integral cameras that was 
demonstrated at previous Siggraphs. That seemed like a nice, commercially 
available way to go, though I assume the cameras were lower resolution.

Thanks
Mike Redmond
---
At 01:12 PM 1/23/2003 +0900, Rodney Berry wrote:
>currently I am using Point Grey Dragonfly cameras with head mounted displays.
>
>Has anyone seen anything better in the small size range?
>
>did anyone manage to get a real price out of silicon concepts for their 
>super-duper USB2 cameras?
>
>I will probably get another dragonfly or two if there's nothing better out 
>there.
>
>Rod.

The Fire-i cameras seem (to me) to be better quality than the iBot (and 
other similar ones).  The price is about the same.

I have bought a pile, and have a few of the iGlasses SVGA HMDs, with 
the very same intention (putting a pair of them on the front).   If 
anyone else is interested in sharing ideas on how to mount them, I'd be 
up for it;  I also want to mount it on a helmet or other "rigid" 
structure, so we can mount other cameras looking in different 
directions that are in a fixed relationship to the hmd.



On Thursday, January 23, 2003, at 10:08  AM, Michael Redmond wrote:

> Rod,
> The Dragonfly looks pretty good, especially if you can really get it 
> in a 1024 X 768 native resolution. I didn't see a price on the web 
> site.
>
> The iBOT and similar cameras are basically single board devices. I 
> haven't done it yet, but if I ever find enough student help to work on 
> it, my plan is to disassemble two iBots and stick them on an iGlasses 
> SVGA HMD. That gives you 640 X 480 and the price is right ($80 per 
> camera or less). They still are a bit bulky though, the board being 
> about 2.5" in diameter.
>
> What ever happened to the Canon HMD display with integral cameras that 
> was demonstrated at previous Siggraphs. That seemed like a nice, 
> commercially available way to go, though I assume the cameras were 
> lower resolution.
>
> Thanks
> Mike Redmond
> ---
> At 01:12 PM 1/23/2003 +0900, Rodney Berry wrote:
>> currently I am using Point Grey Dragonfly cameras with head mounted 
>> displays.
>>
>> Has anyone seen anything better in the small size range?
>>
>> did anyone manage to get a real price out of silicon concepts for 
>> their super-duper USB2 cameras?
>>
>> I will probably get another dragonfly or two if there's nothing 
>> better out there.
>>
>> Rod.

Blair,
The Fire-i does look like a nice option. If you "self power" it, can you 
directly use a 6 to 4 wire cable to a laptop (my Toshiba Satellite has a 4 
wire 1394 connector...I now need to use an Orangelink powered firewire hub 
to connect it)? With the daisy chaining, can you power just one Fire-I with 
the 6 to 4 wire cable and then plug a seconf Fire-i via a 6 wire? And can 
the power be supplied by a battery pack for portability?

Is the lens/distortion any better than the i_Bot? I expect in that respect 
they are probably similar.

Thanks for the info...
Mike
---
At 10:18 AM 1/23/2003 -0500, Blair MacIntyre wrote:
>The Fire-i cameras seem (to me) to be better quality than the iBot (and 
>other similar ones).  The price is about the same.
>
>I have bought a pile, and have a few of the iGlasses SVGA HMDs, with the 
>very same intention (putting a pair of them on the front).   If anyone 
>else is interested in sharing ideas on how to mount them, I'd be up for 
>it;  I also want to mount it on a helmet or other "rigid" structure, so we 
>can mount other cameras looking in different directions that are in a 
>fixed relationship to the hmd.
>
>
>
>On Thursday, January 23, 2003, at 10:08  AM, Michael Redmond wrote:
>
>>Rod,
>>The Dragonfly looks pretty good, especially if you can really get it in a 
>>1024 X 768 native resolution. I didn't see a price on the web site.
>>
>>The iBOT and similar cameras are basically single board devices. I 
>>haven't done it yet, but if I ever find enough student help to work on 
>>it, my plan is to disassemble two iBots and stick them on an iGlasses 
>>SVGA HMD. That gives you 640 X 480 and the price is right ($80 per camera 
>>or less). They still are a bit bulky though, the board being about 2.5" 
>>in diameter.
>>
>>What ever happened to the Canon HMD display with integral cameras that 
>>was demonstrated at previous Siggraphs. That seemed like a nice, 
>>commercially available way to go, though I assume the cameras were lower 
>>resolution.
>>
>>Thanks
>>Mike Redmond
>>---
>>At 01:12 PM 1/23/2003 +0900, Rodney Berry wrote:
>>>currently I am using Point Grey Dragonfly cameras with head mounted 
>>>displays.
>>>
>>>Has anyone seen anything better in the small size range?
>>>
>>>did anyone manage to get a real price out of silicon concepts for their 
>>>super-duper USB2 cameras?
>>>
>>>I will probably get another dragonfly or two if there's nothing better 
>>>out there.
>>>
>>>Rod.

currently I am using Point Grey Dragonfly cameras with head mounted 
displays.

Has anyone seen anything better in the small size range?

did anyone manage to get a real price out of silicon concepts for their 
super-duper USB2 cameras?

I will probably get another dragonfly or two if there's nothing better 
out there.

Rod.

> The Fire-i does look like a nice option. If you "self power" it, can 
> you directly use a 6 to 4 wire cable to a laptop (my Toshiba Satellite 
> has a 4 wire 1394 connector...I now need to use an Orangelink powered 
> firewire hub to connect it)?

Yes, you can.

> With the daisy chaining, can you power just one Fire-I with the 6 to 4 
> wire cable and then plug a seconf Fire-i via a 6 wire?

I don't know, never tried.  I think it might be possible, though.

> And can the power be supplied by a battery pack for portability?

Yes, definitely.  We do that.  It accepts a wide range of power, so we 
use camcorder batteries with a custom cable.

> Is the lens/distortion any better than the i_Bot? I expect in that 
> respect they are probably similar.

They are, I think...


>
> Thanks for the info...
> Mike
> ---
> At 10:18 AM 1/23/2003 -0500, Blair MacIntyre wrote:
>> The Fire-i cameras seem (to me) to be better quality than the iBot 
>> (and other similar ones).  The price is about the same.
>>
>> I have bought a pile, and have a few of the iGlasses SVGA HMDs, with 
>> the very same intention (putting a pair of them on the front).   If 
>> anyone else is interested in sharing ideas on how to mount them, I'd 
>> be up for it;  I also want to mount it on a helmet or other "rigid" 
>> structure, so we can mount other cameras looking in different 
>> directions that are in a fixed relationship to the hmd.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, January 23, 2003, at 10:08  AM, Michael Redmond wrote:
>>
>>> Rod,
>>> The Dragonfly looks pretty good, especially if you can really get it 
>>> in a 1024 X 768 native resolution. I didn't see a price on the web 
>>> site.
>>>
>>> The iBOT and similar cameras are basically single board devices. I 
>>> haven't done it yet, but if I ever find enough student help to work 
>>> on it, my plan is to disassemble two iBots and stick them on an 
>>> iGlasses SVGA HMD. That gives you 640 X 480 and the price is right 
>>> ($80 per camera or less). They still are a bit bulky though, the 
>>> board being about 2.5" in diameter.
>>>
>>> What ever happened to the Canon HMD display with integral cameras 
>>> that was demonstrated at previous Siggraphs. That seemed like a 
>>> nice, commercially available way to go, though I assume the cameras 
>>> were lower resolution.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Mike Redmond
>>> ---
>>> At 01:12 PM 1/23/2003 +0900, Rodney Berry wrote:
>>>> currently I am using Point Grey Dragonfly cameras with head mounted 
>>>> displays.
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone seen anything better in the small size range?
>>>>
>>>> did anyone manage to get a real price out of silicon concepts for 
>>>> their super-duper USB2 cameras?
>>>>
>>>> I will probably get another dragonfly or two if there's nothing 
>>>> better out there.
>>>>
>>>> Rod.

> The Fire-i does look like a nice option. If you "self power" it, can 
> you directly use a 6 to 4 wire cable to a laptop (my Toshiba Satellite 
> has a 4 wire 1394 connector...I now need to use an Orangelink powered 
> firewire hub to connect it)?

Yes, you can.

> With the daisy chaining, can you power just one Fire-I with the 6 to 4 
> wire cable and then plug a seconf Fire-i via a 6 wire?

I don't know, never tried.  I think it might be possible, though.

> And can the power be supplied by a battery pack for portability?

Yes, definitely.  We do that.  It accepts a wide range of power, so we 
use camcorder batteries with a custom cable.

> Is the lens/distortion any better than the i_Bot? I expect in that 
> respect they are probably similar.

They are, I think...


>
> Thanks for the info...
> Mike
> ---
> At 10:18 AM 1/23/2003 -0500, Blair MacIntyre wrote:
>> The Fire-i cameras seem (to me) to be better quality than the iBot 
>> (and other similar ones).  The price is about the same.
>>
>> I have bought a pile, and have a few of the iGlasses SVGA HMDs, with 
>> the very same intention (putting a pair of them on the front).   If 
>> anyone else is interested in sharing ideas on how to mount them, I'd 
>> be up for it;  I also want to mount it on a helmet or other "rigid" 
>> structure, so we can mount other cameras looking in different 
>> directions that are in a fixed relationship to the hmd.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, January 23, 2003, at 10:08  AM, Michael Redmond wrote:
>>
>>> Rod,
>>> The Dragonfly looks pretty good, especially if you can really get it 
>>> in a 1024 X 768 native resolution. I didn't see a price on the web 
>>> site.
>>>
>>> The iBOT and similar cameras are basically single board devices. I 
>>> haven't done it yet, but if I ever find enough student help to work 
>>> on it, my plan is to disassemble two iBots and stick them on an 
>>> iGlasses SVGA HMD. That gives you 640 X 480 and the price is right 
>>> ($80 per camera or less). They still are a bit bulky though, the 
>>> board being about 2.5" in diameter.
>>>
>>> What ever happened to the Canon HMD display with integral cameras 
>>> that was demonstrated at previous Siggraphs. That seemed like a 
>>> nice, commercially available way to go, though I assume the cameras 
>>> were lower resolution.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Mike Redmond
>>> ---
>>> At 01:12 PM 1/23/2003 +0900, Rodney Berry wrote:
>>>> currently I am using Point Grey Dragonfly cameras with head mounted 
>>>> displays.
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone seen anything better in the small size range?
>>>>
>>>> did anyone manage to get a real price out of silicon concepts for 
>>>> their super-duper USB2 cameras?
>>>>
>>>> I will probably get another dragonfly or two if there's nothing 
>>>> better out there.
>>>>
>>>> Rod.

Uwe wrote:

 > is anyone using a Point Grey Dragonfly under Linux?
 > Does it work?

I believe that Georgie tech is using these on linux.
The OS issue is more about the firewire chipset not
the camera. You need to make sure that your firewire
chip is supported in linux IEEE1394

http://www.linux1394.org/
http://www.linux1394.org/cgi-bin/hcl.cgi?class_id=1

Point Grey dragonfly is listed as working
http://www.linux1394.org/cgi-bin/hcl.cgi?class_id=15
http://www.linux1394.org/cgi-bin/view_device.cgi?id=299

 > if so, is the 1024x768 version also working?

I dunno about 1024x768 ...

   -- Doug 

Uwe wrote:

 > is anyone using a Point Grey Dragonfly under Linux?
 > Does it work?

I believe that Georgie tech is using these on linux.
The OS issue is more about the firewire chipset not
the camera. You need to make sure that your firewire
chip is supported in linux IEEE1394

http://www.linux1394.org/
http://www.linux1394.org/cgi-bin/hcl.cgi?class_id=1

Point Grey dragonfly is listed as working
http://www.linux1394.org/cgi-bin/hcl.cgi?class_id=15
http://www.linux1394.org/cgi-bin/view_device.cgi?id=299

 > if so, is the 1024x768 version also working?

I dunno about 1024x768 ...

   -- Doug 

Hi,

is anyone using a Point Grey Dragonfly under Linux?
Does it work?
if so, is the 1024x768 version also working?

   Uwe

Blair MacIntyre wrote:
 >> The Fire-i does look like a nice option. If you "self power" it, can
 >> you directly use a 6 to 4 wire cable to a laptop (my Toshiba Satellite
 >> has a 4 wire 1394 connector...I now need to use an Orangelink powered
 >> firewire hub to connect it)?
 >
 >
 > Yes, you can.
 >
 >> With the daisy chaining, can you power just one Fire-I with the 6 to 4
 >> wire cable and then plug a seconf Fire-i via a 6 wire?
 >
 >
 > I don't know, never tried.  I think it might be possible, though.
 >
 >> And can the power be supplied by a battery pack for portability?
 >
 >
 > Yes, definitely.  We do that.  It accepts a wide range of power, so we
 > use camcorder batteries with a custom cable.
 >
 >> Is the lens/distortion any better than the i_Bot? I expect in that
 >> respect they are probably similar.
 >
 >
 > They are, I think...
 >
 >
 >>
 >> Thanks for the info...
 >> Mike
 >> ---
 >> At 10:18 AM 1/23/2003 -0500, Blair MacIntyre wrote:
 >>
 >>> The Fire-i cameras seem (to me) to be better quality than the iBot
 >>> (and other similar ones).  The price is about the same.
 >>>
 >>> I have bought a pile, and have a few of the iGlasses SVGA HMDs, with
 >>> the very same intention (putting a pair of them on the front).   If
 >>> anyone else is interested in sharing ideas on how to mount them, I'd
 >>> be up for it;  I also want to mount it on a helmet or other "rigid"
 >>> structure, so we can mount other cameras looking in different
 >>> directions that are in a fixed relationship to the hmd.
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> On Thursday, January 23, 2003, at 10:08  AM, Michael Redmond wrote:
 >>>
 >>>> Rod,
 >>>> The Dragonfly looks pretty good, especially if you can really get it
 >>>> in a 1024 X 768 native resolution. I didn't see a price on the web
 >>>> site.
 >>>>
 >>>> The iBOT and similar cameras are basically single board devices. I
 >>>> haven't done it yet, but if I ever find enough student help to work
 >>>> on it, my plan is to disassemble two iBots and stick them on an
 >>>> iGlasses SVGA HMD. That gives you 640 X 480 and the price is right
 >>>> ($80 per camera or less). They still are a bit bulky though, the
 >>>> board being about 2.5" in diameter.
 >>>>
 >>>> What ever happened to the Canon HMD display with integral cameras
 >>>> that was demonstrated at previous Siggraphs. That seemed like a
 >>>> nice, commercially available way to go, though I assume the cameras
 >>>> were lower resolution.
 >>>>
 >>>> Thanks
 >>>> Mike Redmond
 >>>> ---
 >>>> At 01:12 PM 1/23/2003 +0900, Rodney Berry wrote:
 >>>>
 >>>>> currently I am using Point Grey Dragonfly cameras with head mounted
 >>>>> displays.
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Has anyone seen anything better in the small size range?
 >>>>>
 >>>>> did anyone manage to get a real price out of silicon concepts for
 >>>>> their super-duper USB2 cameras?
 >>>>>
 >>>>> I will probably get another dragonfly or two if there's nothing
 >>>>> better out there.
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Rod.
 >>>>


-- 
                 \\\|///  *Rechenzentrum Universitaet Stuttgart*
     _I_         ( o o )            *Visualisierung*                 _I_
    (_@_)----oo0O--(_)--O0oo----------------------------------------(_@_)
     | |      Uwe Woessner      woessner@r ...................        | |
     | |         .ooo0       http://www.hlrs.de/people/woessner/     | |
     |_|         (   )  Oooo.      Phone: +49-711-685-5790           |_|
    (_@_)---------\ (---(   )---------------------------------------(_@_)
      I            \_)   ) /                                          I
                        (_/

Hi,

is anyone using a Point Grey Dragonfly under Linux?
Does it work?
if so, is the 1024x768 version also working?

   Uwe

Blair MacIntyre wrote:
 >> The Fire-i does look like a nice option. If you "self power" it, can
 >> you directly use a 6 to 4 wire cable to a laptop (my Toshiba Satellite
 >> has a 4 wire 1394 connector...I now need to use an Orangelink powered
 >> firewire hub to connect it)?
 >
 >
 > Yes, you can.
 >
 >> With the daisy chaining, can you power just one Fire-I with the 6 to 4
 >> wire cable and then plug a seconf Fire-i via a 6 wire?
 >
 >
 > I don't know, never tried.  I think it might be possible, though.
 >
 >> And can the power be supplied by a battery pack for portability?
 >
 >
 > Yes, definitely.  We do that.  It accepts a wide range of power, so we
 > use camcorder batteries with a custom cable.
 >
 >> Is the lens/distortion any better than the i_Bot? I expect in that
 >> respect they are probably similar.
 >
 >
 > They are, I think...
 >
 >
 >>
 >> Thanks for the info...
 >> Mike
 >> ---
 >> At 10:18 AM 1/23/2003 -0500, Blair MacIntyre wrote:
 >>
 >>> The Fire-i cameras seem (to me) to be better quality than the iBot
 >>> (and other similar ones).  The price is about the same.
 >>>
 >>> I have bought a pile, and have a few of the iGlasses SVGA HMDs, with
 >>> the very same intention (putting a pair of them on the front).   If
 >>> anyone else is interested in sharing ideas on how to mount them, I'd
 >>> be up for it;  I also want to mount it on a helmet or other "rigid"
 >>> structure, so we can mount other cameras looking in different
 >>> directions that are in a fixed relationship to the hmd.
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> On Thursday, January 23, 2003, at 10:08  AM, Michael Redmond wrote:
 >>>
 >>>> Rod,
 >>>> The Dragonfly looks pretty good, especially if you can really get it
 >>>> in a 1024 X 768 native resolution. I didn't see a price on the web
 >>>> site.
 >>>>
 >>>> The iBOT and similar cameras are basically single board devices. I
 >>>> haven't done it yet, but if I ever find enough student help to work
 >>>> on it, my plan is to disassemble two iBots and stick them on an
 >>>> iGlasses SVGA HMD. That gives you 640 X 480 and the price is right
 >>>> ($80 per camera or less). They still are a bit bulky though, the
 >>>> board being about 2.5" in diameter.
 >>>>
 >>>> What ever happened to the Canon HMD display with integral cameras
 >>>> that was demonstrated at previous Siggraphs. That seemed like a
 >>>> nice, commercially available way to go, though I assume the cameras
 >>>> were lower resolution.
 >>>>
 >>>> Thanks
 >>>> Mike Redmond
 >>>> ---
 >>>> At 01:12 PM 1/23/2003 +0900, Rodney Berry wrote:
 >>>>
 >>>>> currently I am using Point Grey Dragonfly cameras with head mounted
 >>>>> displays.
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Has anyone seen anything better in the small size range?
 >>>>>
 >>>>> did anyone manage to get a real price out of silicon concepts for
 >>>>> their super-duper USB2 cameras?
 >>>>>
 >>>>> I will probably get another dragonfly or two if there's nothing
 >>>>> better out there.
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Rod.
 >>>>


-- 
                 \\\|///  *Rechenzentrum Universitaet Stuttgart*
     _I_         ( o o )            *Visualisierung*                 _I_
    (_@_)----oo0O--(_)--O0oo----------------------------------------(_@_)
     | |      Uwe Woessner      woessner@r ...................        | |
     | |         .ooo0       http://www.hlrs.de/people/woessner/     | |
     |_|         (   )  Oooo.      Phone: +49-711-685-5790           |_|
    (_@_)---------\ (---(   )---------------------------------------(_@_)
      I            \_)   ) /                                          I
                        (_/

shopping for firewire cameras?
Also - don't forget that you won't be able to just plug one into a typical 
PC laptop... they don't use the big powered connector - you'll need a 
firewire hub... that's what we had to do ;-)
Kirk Martinez

>

-
http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~km 

shopping for firewire cameras?
Also - don't forget that you won't be able to just plug one into a typical 
PC laptop... they don't use the big powered connector - you'll need a 
firewire hub... that's what we had to do ;-)
Kirk Martinez

>

-
http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~km