Hi

I am very interested in information what camera for <$300 is suitable
for good results with ARToolKit.
Requirements:
* USB2.0
* Resolution >=3D 800*600
* Min. 15fps
* It must be small enough to be mounted on a HMD

Does anyone have experience with cameras that fulfil the listed
requirements?

Best regards,
Andreas

>> This is also a reply to Jiang Tian who asked what HMD to buy. We have
>> purchased both the Trivisio HMD with integrated camera (for 3000 
>> euro) and a
>> pair of i-glasses VIDEO HR (for 600 euro). To use the i-glasses as a 
>> HMD we
>> attached a Trust USB 2.0 camera between the eyes. We bought the Trust 
>> camera
>> for less than 40 euro. The Trust camera has been recommended by other
>> ARToolkit users on this mailing list, and if you remove the plastic 
>> box
>> around the camera you have a very small camera.
>
> I'm afraid the Trust cam does not fulfill the resolution requirements 
> of >= 800x600 that Jiang Tiang stated, nor am I aware of any USB cam 
> that fulfills them. Even with Firewire I only know of the Dragonfly 
> cameras and those are, to the best of my knowledge, beyond the $300 
> price barrier.

I would feel quite comfortable saying there aren't any that will meet 
those requirements, but I'd _love_ to be proven wrong.

I am just moving up to the more expensive pointgrey cameras, so I can 
get higher resolution (1024x768) and/or higher frame rates.  It's hard 
to get both, alas, and the cameras are bigger and cost a lot more.

> BTW, has anyone used unibrain's fire-i camera with ARToolkit (or 
> generally for  building a HMD)? They look small to begin with, 
> removing the box might even save some more space, and they have two 
> Firewire ports, so daisy-chaining them for stereo vision seems 
> possible. They lack autofocus (well, so do the USB cams I know of, but 
> IMO the iSight is setting the standards in the FW department).

We use fire-i's.  They are nice.  Removing the box won't save much, the 
camera is pretty tightly packed in.  The image can be ok if you adjust 
the parameters manually, rather than using auto-gain.

I've been very unhappy with the iSight for ARToolkit.  It's slower 
(compared to a fire-i on the mac with the ioxpert drivers) and the 
image isn't as good.

Hi,



> Hi Sune,

> BTW, has anyone used unibrain's fire-i camera with ARToolkit (or 
> generally for  building a HMD)? They look small to begin with, removing 
> the box might even save some more space, and they have two Firewire 
> ports, so daisy-chaining them for stereo vision seems possible. They 
> lack autofocus (well, so do the USB cams I know of, but IMO the iSight 
> is setting the standards in the FW department).
>

   I use fire-i camera with ARToolkit 2.65 in Linux. It's good by now. Another 
   guy in my lab removing the box to build the camera in eye tracker equipment.
It can save more space.



Regards,

Jiang

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jiang Tian
Graduate Student, HCI Program
Human and Computer Vision Laboratory
Virtual Reality Application Center
Iowa State University
Ames, IA 50011

Lab Phone: +1-515-294-4922

I'm using the Unibrain Fire-i with ARToolkit 2.68.2 under Windows XP. 
I'm using the stock Windows IIRC drivers for the camera as I had system 
stability problems (sudden reboots on program exit) when I used 
DsVideoLib with the Unibrain drivers.

I tried DsVideoLib 0.0.6, but encountered video freezing issues. I agree 
with Blair that the automatic gain control on the Fire-i cameras is a 
problem, and unfortunately it seems that the Unibrain drivers need to be 
installed on a PC to manually adjust gain. If anyone has a stable 
combination working (DsVideoLib xxx with ART xxx and Fire-i driver xxx 
on WinXP) it would be great to know about it.

Thanks,

Eliot

Blair MacIntyre wrote:

>> BTW, has anyone used unibrain's fire-i camera with ARToolkit (or 
>> generally for  building a HMD)? They look small to begin with, 
>> removing the box might even save some more space, and they have two 
>> Firewire ports, so daisy-chaining them for stereo vision seems 
>> possible. They lack autofocus (well, so do the USB cams I know of, 
>> but IMO the iSight is setting the standards in the FW department).
>
>
> We use fire-i's.  They are nice.  Removing the box won't save much, 
> the camera is pretty tightly packed in.  The image can be ok if you 
> adjust the parameters manually, rather than using auto-gain.
>
> I've been very unhappy with the iSight for ARToolkit.  It's slower 
> (compared to a fire-i on the mac with the ioxpert drivers) and the 
> image isn't as good.
>

Hi 

This is also a reply to Jiang Tian who asked what HMD to buy. We have
purchased both the Trivisio HMD with integrated camera (for 3000 euro) and a
pair of i-glasses VIDEO HR (for 600 euro). To use the i-glasses as a HMD we
attached a Trust USB 2.0 camera between the eyes. We bought the Trust camera
for less than 40 euro. The Trust camera has been recommended by other
ARToolkit users on this mailing list, and if you remove the plastic box
around the camera you have a very small camera. 

Our experience with the Trivisio HMD is rather bad; we never really
succeeded in making it work with ARToolkit even though we had a great deal
of correspondence with the manufacturers. On top of that the Trivisio
goggles are quite uncomfortable to ware for more than a few minutes at the
time because the weight of the goggles is placed on the users nose. 

The i-glasses with the Trust camera attached to it works fine. However when
you look in the i-glasses it is like looking at a large screen from a
distance, which means that it is harder to obtain the illusion that computer
generated objects are placed in the real world. 

We are planning to investigate a product called Eyetop (see
http://www.eyetop.net/). I will let you know if it works well. 

I hope this could help. Please mail me if you need more details. 

Best Regards

Sune Kristensen

---
Sune Kristensen
Master of Science
Aabogade 34
8000 Aarhus C

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-artoolkit@h ..................
[mailto:owner-artoolkit@h ..................] On Behalf Of romahn, andreas
Sent: 7. december 2004 13:30
To: artoolkit@h ..................
Subject: USB camera for <$300

Hi

I am very interested in information what camera for <$300 is suitable
for good results with ARToolKit.
Requirements:
* USB2.0
* Resolution >= 800*600
* Min. 15fps
* It must be small enough to be mounted on a HMD

Does anyone have experience with cameras that fulfil the listed
requirements?

Best regards,
Andreas

Hi Sune,

> This is also a reply to Jiang Tian who asked what HMD to buy. We have
> purchased both the Trivisio HMD with integrated camera (for 3000 euro)=20=

> and a
> pair of i-glasses VIDEO HR (for 600 euro). To use the i-glasses as a=20=

> HMD we
> attached a Trust USB 2.0 camera between the eyes. We bought the Trust=20=

> camera
> for less than 40 euro. The Trust camera has been recommended by other
> ARToolkit users on this mailing list, and if you remove the plastic =
box
> around the camera you have a very small camera.

I'm afraid the Trust cam does not fulfill the resolution requirements=20
of >=3D 800x600 that Jiang Tiang stated, nor am I aware of any USB cam=20=

that fulfills them. Even with Firewire I only know of the Dragonfly=20
cameras and those are, to the best of my knowledge, beyond the $300=20
price barrier.

BTW, has anyone used unibrain's fire-i camera with ARToolkit (or=20
generally for  building a HMD)? They look small to begin with, removing=20=

the box might even save some more space, and they have two Firewire=20
ports, so daisy-chaining them for stereo vision seems possible. They=20
lack autofocus (well, so do the USB cams I know of, but IMO the iSight=20=

is setting the standards in the FW department).

> Our experience with the Trivisio HMD is rather bad; we never really
> succeeded in making it work with ARToolkit even though we had a great=20=

> deal
> of correspondence with the manufacturers. On top of that the Trivisio
> goggles are quite uncomfortable to ware for more than a few minutes at=20=

> the
> time because the weight of the goggles is placed on the users nose.

How about using the HMD version with the PAL cameras and separate video=20=

grabber/firewire box instead? That should take care of weight and=20
driver issues... I'm afraid the Trivisio gear is out of our price=20
league but the fov and the positioning of the cameras still make it=20
sound rather desirable...

> The i-glasses with the Trust camera attached to it works fine. However=20=

> when
> you look in the i-glasses it is like looking at a large screen from a
> distance, which means that it is harder to obtain the illusion that=20
> computer
> generated objects are placed in the real world.

Darn, we have two pairs arriving shortly, so much for the total=20
immersion experience :/  Has anyone made any modifications to their=20
i-glasses that make them more AR'ish?

> We are planning to investigate a product called Eyetop (see
> http://www.eyetop.net/). I will let you know if it works well.

Hm, this doesn't look too promising for "true" AR (i.e. registered in=20
3D). The Eyetop is monocular and has a very narrow fov, and unless you=20=

place the camera very carefully you'll never be able to make the Eyetop=20=

display a window into the augmented world rather than a virtual monitor=20=

showing a view of the augmented world. (Disregard this if you are=20
planning to make heavy hardware modifications to the eyetop. In that=20
case let us know what you did/how you did it :) )

Best regards,
Eike

--=20
Dipl.-Inform. Eike M. Lang
Universit=E4t Duisburg-Essen (Standort Duisburg)
Institut f=FCr Informatik und Interaktive Systeme
Lotharstrasse 65, Raum LF 284, 47057 Duisburg

email:     lang@i ......................
Tel. :     +49 203 379-1417  Fax -3557

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Hi there,

Sune has mentioned the Trivisio glasses - we've been using the goggles-version first 
and then had it remodeled by the manufacturer into a head mounted version which is 
mucho better to wear. (it sits on the forehead, see 
http://www.trivisio.com/tech_ARvisionHMD.html). 

We're using it with our own video lib and ARToolkit without problems. If anybody from 
the list is interested in integrating support into the ARToolkit video lib I can share some 
code.

Have a nice day,

Michael 
shared-reality.com


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<?xml  version="1.0" ?><html>
<head>
<title></title>
</head>
<body>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">Hi there,</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><br/>
</div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">Sune has mentioned the Trivisio glasses - we've been using the goggles-version first 
and then had it remodeled by the manufacturer into a head mounted version which is 
mucho better to wear. (it sits on the forehead, see 
http://www.trivisio.com/tech_ARvisionHMD.html). </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><br/>
</div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">We're using it with our own video lib and ARToolkit without problems. If anybody from 
the list is interested in integrating support into the ARToolkit video lib I can share some 
code.</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><br/>
</div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">Have a nice day,</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><br/>
</div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">Michael </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">shared-reality.com</span></font></div>
<div align="left"></div>
</body>
</html>

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